Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Ideas for 4.x and Beyond
Solid State Squad Forums > News & Suggestions > The Hope of Tomorrow
itsgreylolol
These arent bugs, major fixes or anything super important, just little things I think would help make things look and run a bit better. Feel free to add on, or tell me why I have a bad idea.

Id like it if when I went to a ranking page, it always highlighted me and my friends. Makes for easy comparison instead of having to add the highlight code every time.

The button to switch DP view on/off. I know its been discussed, Im just wondering how feasible/how many people want this.

Faker mentioned this before, I dont know if it went anywhere, but I think it would be cool to be able to link to the chart on textage.cc from say the song ranking pages.

I also very much like the idea of a comprehensive page of the max scores that was suggested in this thread, but thats just me throwing my 2 cents in.

Blue Rain
i kinda liked it better before where hard clear was a box around, on songs ive fc;'d i cant tell if i used hard or not
Krazy
Use the new DJ Point system based on EX score, with only one difficulty counting, like all the recent IIDX styles have used. I'm pretty sure the formula is... somewhere. The system now is really ancient and doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, it's basically just a measure of who has the most scores entered. If only 1 difficulty is considered (like IIDX currently does), it would make the DJP ranking a lot more interesting.

Also all the vertical scrolling on the score entry page REALLY sucks and I hope it's changed because having to scroll EVERY time I enter a score gets old. VJA 3's system of 5 columns worked perfectly. Actually almost everything was better about 3.0. Having the hard clear border was nice, as opposed to just a color. The 'lamps' on the score entry page, their color scheme is really weird to me, and it doesn't stand out very much.

oh yeah and the top scores page for every song would be awesome, it would alleviate OCD people from having to make giant lists of what has been 98%'d and PC'd and what hasn't.
chotto kiitena
I'm going to make the 3.0 interface an option for people to use once version 5.0 is done. But it's something that we basically need to rewrite the site for, in order to let people choose between the new and the old (since the current site doesn't use any templating). It's definitely in the plan but it's a long way off.

Yeah I was also considering updating that DJP system when I saw your post on it.
Schala
QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 17 2009, 08:04 AM) *
oh yeah and the top scores page for every song would be awesome, it would alleviate OCD people from having to make giant lists of what has been 98%'d and PC'd and what hasn't.

Xythar had a fair point in that particular thread about how most of the good players don't even put up scores, making an "official" S3-generated list useless
Krazy
posting this here also because for some reason the other thread I posted this in, my post kind of got fucked up thanks to the chinese and hey why not.

djp=EX*(1+C+L)/100

where

EX is your EX score
C is your clear bonus, clear=.1, hard clear=.2, FC=.3
L is your grade bonus, A=.1, AA=.15, AAA=.2

and then this is only counted for whatever difficulty yields the highest points.

SO for a song, say you full combo the hyper with a AAA and get 1800 EX. You DJP from this would be 1800*(1.5)/100=27. But then on the another you get 2200 EX, but fail and only have a B. Your DJP from this would be 2200*1/100=22. Since 27 is more than 22, you get 27 DJ Points from this song.

now the only issue is to figure out how to properly round it, but since it's IIDX it probably just floors it.
Cole
QUOTE (itsgreylolol @ Jul 16 2009, 11:53 PM) *
These arent bugs, major fixes or anything super important, just little things I think would help make things look and run a bit better. Feel free to add on, or tell me why I have a bad idea.

Id like it if when I went to a ranking page, it always highlighted me and my friends. Makes for easy comparison instead of having to add the highlight code every time.

The button to switch DP view on/off. I know its been discussed, Im just wondering how feasible/how many people want this.

Faker mentioned this before, I dont know if it went anywhere, but I think it would be cool to be able to link to the chart on textage.cc from say the song ranking pages.

I also very much like the idea of a comprehensive page of the max scores that was suggested in this thread, but thats just me throwing my 2 cents in.


Like.

Also, is "i am the end of the world" a reference to JFC? wub.gif
itsgreylolol
Im so happy to not be the only person on this forums who would recognize that quote.
Cole
QUOTE (itsgreylolol @ Jul 20 2009, 01:25 AM) *
Im so happy to not be the only person on this forums who would recognize that quote.


LOVE the Acacia Strain
Krazy
I'd like to see view user boxes look like this:

(20 november [a])
(Not sure what this was, maybe 5.1.1 [n] but then I should have used a 1 instead of 2, oh well)
(Innocent walls [h], hard cleared)

as it is now, there's no way to easily distinguish AAA's from 98%'s, and even AAA from AA can be difficult if you're just scanning. Hard clears can't be seen at all. This way also looks prettier and lists how far you are from the next grade level/MAX. Also shows DJP since it's somewhat interesting and there needed to be something else to put in the other corner.

The background color could default to the clear status, and then users could change it to highlight grade or age (basically, the same way it is now). A default setting could be added in preferences for the highlighting method, so if someone only wants to see age by default they can.

One thing I'd REALLY like to see is hard/easy counted as a clear status, not a mod. It sort of is now, but doesn't show up on view user/whatever else. Basically, PC implies FC which implies HARD which implies CLEAR which implies EASY (which implies ASSIST if you actually want to implement assist clears, I don't think you should though.) This would be especially useful for 3rd-5th, where hard didn't exist. What I mean is, having something FC'd should automatically mark it as hard cleared by the system.

We could potentially also put the DJP on each view score page as well (autocalculated), and then have the option to sort by DJP instead of EX score (just alternatively, not the main sort method). Since now DJP is now directly related to EX score, it would make sense somewhat.

Also, since with the new method DJP is only counted for the difficulty that awards the most, it could be lighter colored on View User for difficulties that are lower than whatever the highest is (just a thought). Since those are not actually counted in what would be the 'total'.

One problem that may arise is in songs that are split into different song id's due to having multiple charts. 5.1.1 is the perfect example. Do you count the top DJP for each song id, or somehow just take the top overall, out of all charts for the song (there are like 5 by now right?). I think it would probably make the most sense to somehow tie song id's together that are actually the same 'song' (like 5.1.1 and 5.1.1 old and 5.1.1 10th), and figure out a way to only count the DJP that are highest out of all the charts. Of course, if VJA 5.0 does implement Taren's idea of having all charts for a song under a single class/id, then that might make things easier.

Also, there's then the problem of if someone is only viewing one style, which only has certain difficulties. For example, Sense [a] between 3rd and 4th. Say someone has higher DJP for the 4th style [a] than the 3rd style [a] (but the 3rd style [a] still has more DJP than the normal/hyper). Then if they are only viewing 3rd style, the 3rd style [a] SHOULD count for DJP, but if they are viewing all styles, only the 4th style [a] should count (IMO). It's complicated.

I think I'm going to try and figure out how DJP is rounded on DJTroopers becuase I'd really like to see the new method implemented since it's so much better than the old one and would add a new dynamic to the site.



Also, would it be possible to add a 98% line to the graph on the score entry screen? Not right now, but maybe on 5.0 or something there could be the ability to enable '98% mode', making various things related to 98%'s show up in various spots, like a count of 98%'s on View User, distance from 98% on the score entry/View User (if we include 'distance from' on it), the 98% on the score graph, etc. This way people who don't want to worry about getting 98% on stuff don't have to see all these stats that seem impossible to obtain, and those that want them there can have them.

I'm not sure how people would feel about it, but if we really wanted to go into detail we could add a couple other things that I've seen on Japanese trackers. Such as, location/state/prefacture/etc., which would display on the view song page, next to their score, and other spots maybe. It would be optional obviously, and people could have the option to not view any locations if they wanted. Also, the ability to enter which controller type you used to get a score, as well as which side you play (For doubles there would be 2 controller entries but no side entry). Such as, KOC, KASC, Pop'n, Dual Shock, Dao FP7, etc. This would also show up next to each score on view score, and be optional to view/enter. People could specify their default location/controllers in their profile so that they don't have to select/enter it every time they enter a new score. I'm getting these ideas from http://iidx.cc/cs/wr/view.cgi?no=31&mode=7a btw (it has dan-rank too but I really don't think that's necessary).

Also, from that same site, some things I find neat are the NEW! icon next to new scores (I don't know how long it stays NEW), and the UP! icon next to scores that were recently updated (I don't know how long it says UP), as well as how much the score is UP. It also lists distance above AND below each grade level, instead of just one or the other (or neither, the way it currently is). There is also the option to see a graph for each score (http://iidx.cc/cs/wr/view.cgi?no=31&mo...a&detail=on) which is nice as well, it removes comments to make room for the graph. In addition it shows the green number the person uses, or they can enter the white number and have the green number calculated. (It also lists the standard error above/below the mean, but I don't really think that's necessary, especially since the way it's displayed doesn't make too much sense if you don't already know.)

Oh yeah, the ability to specify which sides Modifiers were used on for doubles would be nice. Since oftentimes I only use random or mirror on one side but not the other. Also, DP FLIP really needs to be added as a modifier since it saves now and makes a pretty big difference in the chart.

Maybe some way to view a user's course score, a la the View User page except for courses?

Maybe a Dan-mode score entry? One for each style, all it needs is a % entered, but people should only be able to enter one of them (generally, the highest course they can pass). I guess we could allow people to enter every dan-course, but then there would just be 100 100%'s on the easier ones. Also we could include Max Combo, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't save, it's just shown on the results screen.

This is pretty controversial but I'd like to see 5-key removed entirely; it's never going to come back, only appeared in beatmania US which is hardly relevant, and is basically the equivalent of including score entry for beginner's charts. It also seems inconsistent, 5-key scores have saved seperately since Distorted or maybe earlier, so why not allow us to enter scores for 5-key normal/hyper/another or 10-key normal/hyper/another*? For that matter, there isn't even a 10-key entry, which exists on beatmania US just as much as 5-key. *please don't do this, no one wants to play 5-key for the majority of charts, except really dumb things like 20, November.

What's the policy for song difficulties? I think Taren mentioned that he wanted to have both the hibroad 'official' rating as well as the rating on each style stored in the database. I think this is a good idea. Users could then choose to display only the hibroad rating, display the difficulty as shown on whatever style they are viewing, or view the difficulty from the most recent CS version that the song is on. It would solve a lot of problems, like charts that have difficulty changed on AC but never show up on CS again.

Oh yeah, I'd also like to see the option to change what we see on view user. I'm thinking "view only songs with scores entered" / "view all songs (including blanks) on only my page" / "view all songs (including blanks) on all users' pages".

...Well, this post was only supposed to be about View User and DJP but turned into a stream of consciousness of what I'd like to see. It's really long, I guess, but I think most of the ideas should be considered.
Mazrim
Is your post going to be available in paperback soon? smile.gif
Krazy
yeah that's probably the longest post I've ever made anywhere.

Okay I figured out how DJ Points round:

they don't. Kind of. For each individual song, the difficulty that would give you the highest DJP counts towards the total (including black another, if you have higher DJP on that). Since the formula can only produce numbers that have up to 4 decimal places, I guess you could say it rounds each individual song to 4 decimal places... but that's not important. Basically it takes the EXACT value from each song, and adds them all together. Then, this final total is FLOORED (as in, it's set to the largest integer less than the true total).

So if my total DJP is really 2001.95, it will display as 2001. But if I've only played two songs say, and got 20.9875 and 10.95 DJP on each one, then the total is FLOOR(20.9875+10.95)=FLOOR(31.9375)=31 (even though it's closer to 32).

Basically, each song's individual DJP is exact but the total isn't.

Also, SP and DP totals are computed and rounded separately, and then added. So if you have 100.9 total on single (which shows as 100), and 50.9 on double (which shows as 50), the total is 150, NOT 151.
Himiko
QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
I'd like to see view user boxes look like this:

(20 november [a])
(Not sure what this was, maybe 5.1.1 [n] but then I should have used a 1 instead of 2, oh well)
(Innocent walls [h], hard cleared)

as it is now, there's no way to easily distinguish AAA's from 98%'s, and even AAA from AA can be difficult if you're just scanning. Hard clears can't be seen at all. This way also looks prettier and lists how far you are from the next grade level/MAX. Also shows DJP since it's somewhat interesting and there needed to be something else to put in the other corner.


I'm not totally sold on the graphical approach just because of the number of images that would need to be shown to render a full set of all songs on all difficulties. Also, you can see 98%s if you add &grademode=98 to the query string, it will show them as "AAAA" I think. This could still maybe be added as an extra skin in 5.0 though. I could certainly show hard clears in some other way (maybe background colour?) though.

QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
The background color could default to the clear status, and then users could change it to highlight grade or age (basically, the same way it is now). A default setting could be added in preferences for the highlighting method, so if someone only wants to see age by default they can.


Yeah, should be doable I think.

QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
One thing I'd REALLY like to see is hard/easy counted as a clear status, not a mod. It sort of is now, but doesn't show up on view user/whatever else. Basically, PC implies FC which implies HARD which implies CLEAR which implies EASY (which implies ASSIST if you actually want to implement assist clears, I don't think you should though.) This would be especially useful for 3rd-5th, where hard didn't exist. What I mean is, having something FC'd should automatically mark it as hard cleared by the system.


This is one of the things that's on my list already, actually. I think it'd be more of a "previous hard clear" status, in line with the "previous full combo" and "previous perfect combo" although I'm not sure what the best way to show that would be. At the same time, I'd like to also keep hard as a mod for people who simply like to show that they got that particular score with 'hard' set as a mod. I'd also like to make it easier to set previous FC/PC/HC without having to actually submit a score and then revert to your previous one, which is kinda clunky.

QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
We could potentially also put the DJP on each view score page as well (autocalculated), and then have the option to sort by DJP instead of EX score (just alternatively, not the main sort method). Since now DJP is now directly related to EX score, it would make sense somewhat.


We could, if people care that much about seeing DJP all the time...

QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
Also, since with the new method DJP is only counted for the difficulty that awards the most, it could be lighter colored on View User for difficulties that are lower than whatever the highest is (just a thought). Since those are not actually counted in what would be the 'total'.

One problem that may arise is in songs that are split into different song id's due to having multiple charts. 5.1.1 is the perfect example. Do you count the top DJP for each song id, or somehow just take the top overall, out of all charts for the song (there are like 5 by now right?). I think it would probably make the most sense to somehow tie song id's together that are actually the same 'song' (like 5.1.1 and 5.1.1 old and 5.1.1 10th), and figure out a way to only count the DJP that are highest out of all the charts. Of course, if VJA 5.0 does implement Taren's idea of having all charts for a song under a single class/id, then that might make things easier.


We can do that on the new schema I think, just use one chart for the whole song.

QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
Also, there's then the problem of if someone is only viewing one style, which only has certain difficulties. For example, Sense [a] between 3rd and 4th. Say someone has higher DJP for the 4th style [a] than the 3rd style [a] (but the 3rd style [a] still has more DJP than the normal/hyper). Then if they are only viewing 3rd style, the 3rd style [a] SHOULD count for DJP, but if they are viewing all styles, only the 4th style [a] should count (IMO). It's complicated.

I think I'm going to try and figure out how DJP is rounded on DJTroopers becuase I'd really like to see the new method implemented since it's so much better than the old one and would add a new dynamic to the site.


Maybe, but at the same time we need an authoritative DJP of some kind to show on the sig image etc. and people are going to find it weird if their DJPs for individual styles do not add up.

QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
Also, would it be possible to add a 98% line to the graph on the score entry screen? Not right now, but maybe on 5.0 or something there could be the ability to enable '98% mode', making various things related to 98%'s show up in various spots, like a count of 98%'s on View User, distance from 98% on the score entry/View User (if we include 'distance from' on it), the 98% on the score graph, etc. This way people who don't want to worry about getting 98% on stuff don't have to see all these stats that seem impossible to obtain, and those that want them there can have them.


Maybe, if you really like 98%. I'm hesitant because it's not an official scoring grade so for instance you're not going to see any of these things in the game, just distance from AAA and MAX.

QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
I'm not sure how people would feel about it, but if we really wanted to go into detail we could add a couple other things that I've seen on Japanese trackers. Such as, location/state/prefacture/etc., which would display on the view song page, next to their score, and other spots maybe. It would be optional obviously, and people could have the option to not view any locations if they wanted. Also, the ability to enter which controller type you used to get a score, as well as which side you play (For doubles there would be 2 controller entries but no side entry). Such as, KOC, KASC, Pop'n, Dual Shock, Dao FP7, etc. This would also show up next to each score on view score, and be optional to view/enter. People could specify their default location/controllers in their profile so that they don't have to select/enter it every time they enter a new score. I'm getting these ideas from http://iidx.cc/cs/wr/view.cgi?no=31&mode=7a btw (it has dan-rank too but I really don't think that's necessary).


I dunno, maybe. Those sound fine as profile fields but I don't see much gain in collecting the info from every single score, since it'll mostly just crowd out the current viewsong page which has enough info on it as it is.

QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
Also, from that same site, some things I find neat are the NEW! icon next to new scores (I don't know how long it stays NEW), and the UP! icon next to scores that were recently updated (I don't know how long it says UP), as well as how much the score is UP. It also lists distance above AND below each grade level, instead of just one or the other (or neither, the way it currently is). There is also the option to see a graph for each score (http://iidx.cc/cs/wr/view.cgi?no=31&mo...a&detail=on) which is nice as well, it removes comments to make room for the graph. In addition it shows the green number the person uses, or they can enter the white number and have the green number calculated. (It also lists the standard error above/below the mean, but I don't really think that's necessary, especially since the way it's displayed doesn't make too much sense if you don't already know.)

Oh yeah, the ability to specify which sides Modifiers were used on for doubles would be nice. Since oftentimes I only use random or mirror on one side but not the other. Also, DP FLIP really needs to be added as a modifier since it saves now and makes a pretty big difference in the chart.


The first part sounds useful, yeah. The second part is something we'll have to work out how to actually present. The main thing whenever doing modifications for doubles modes is that it tends to get deprioritised due to how few people actually play doubles (you'll notice how few courses in the system actually have 14K notecounts - this is the database as it was given to me, so it looks like nobody ever got around to adding them).

QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
Maybe some way to view a user's course score, a la the View User page except for courses?


Could be done if enough people actually play courses to care about it.

Himiko
QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
Maybe a Dan-mode score entry? One for each style, all it needs is a % entered, but people should only be able to enter one of them (generally, the highest course they can pass). I guess we could allow people to enter every dan-course, but then there would just be 100 100%'s on the easier ones. Also we could include Max Combo, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't save, it's just shown on the results screen.


Could do, but to me it's always seemed like a pointless statistic. How many people really care what % people get on dan courses?

QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
This is pretty controversial but I'd like to see 5-key removed entirely; it's never going to come back, only appeared in beatmania US which is hardly relevant, and is basically the equivalent of including score entry for beginner's charts. It also seems inconsistent, 5-key scores have saved seperately since Distorted or maybe earlier, so why not allow us to enter scores for 5-key normal/hyper/another or 10-key normal/hyper/another*? For that matter, there isn't even a 10-key entry, which exists on beatmania US just as much as 5-key. *please don't do this, no one wants to play 5-key for the majority of charts, except really dumb things like 20, November.


Should hopefully be a non-issue with the new schema, which will treat 5 key charts as charts like any others. So it's no more effort to support them.

QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
What's the policy for song difficulties? I think Taren mentioned that he wanted to have both the hibroad 'official' rating as well as the rating on each style stored in the database. I think this is a good idea. Users could then choose to display only the hibroad rating, display the difficulty as shown on whatever style they are viewing, or view the difficulty from the most recent CS version that the song is on. It would solve a lot of problems, like charts that have difficulty changed on AC but never show up on CS again.


I think we already have this but it usually just shows the 'recent' difficulty. Again, something that would have to be added as a preference.

QUOTE (Krazy @ Jul 24 2009, 01:01 PM) *
Oh yeah, I'd also like to see the option to change what we see on view user. I'm thinking "view only songs with scores entered" / "view all songs (including blanks) on only my page" / "view all songs (including blanks) on all users' pages".

...Well, this post was only supposed to be about View User and DJP but turned into a stream of consciousness of what I'd like to see. It's really long, I guess, but I think most of the ideas should be considered.


I'm going to add view single/double before this (as viewing single and double at once is just too crowded). I guess we could add this if people really want?


Anyway, just remember that I'm just one person who does this in their free time, and even 4.1 took weeks to get ready. I would be surprised if we even had a basic 5.0 ready this year, let alone one with a ton of new features. In the end, you always have to prioritise because until I'm working full time on this (not too likely unless someone wants to start paying me tongue.gif) the main problem is always going to be time.
waffles
I'd like it if &grademode=98 was something that stayed active... I really like viewing it, but whenever changing pages it goes away. Perhaps having view 98%s as a configuration option would work better.

Also, if on the view user page 98s would add another row of stats much like the AAA/AA/A/PC/FC, etc, that would be good.
Flowers for Albion
Sudden+ support on courses from Red and up?
Schala
QUOTE (waffles @ Jul 27 2009, 10:12 PM) *
I'd like it if &grademode=98 was something that stayed active...

Why isn't it like this right now? This shouldn't be a future suggestion!
Jadin
can we have it so when you go to the song view screen from your score entry page, it automatically adds the '&highlight=you' tag?
(edit: well it's adding it NOW, but I swear it didn't do it just a second ago when I linked somewhere from my page...)
(edit 2: oh. if you link a score from your page but you don't have a score for it, it leaves the tag off. can you include the tag anyway?)

also can you display the song's notecount somewhere on the actual score entry page please, probably with the stats the same way the view score page is set up?
Schala
QUOTE (Marlie Tang @ Jul 30 2009, 01:51 PM) *
QUOTE (waffles @ Jul 27 2009, 10:12 PM) *
I'd like it if &grademode=98 was something that stayed active...

Why isn't it like this right now? This shouldn't be a future suggestion!
chotto kiitena
because to persist something like that we need to store it in the database

which means adding a new field to the user table and probably then a means to control it in the user control panel so we'd have to add in the interface for that and the code to update it and ugh
Cole
I think it would be cool to have stats "by difficulty." For example, on my pages I could view my AAAs/FCs/PCs by difficulty, so Id know how many 10s and 11s Id AAAed/FCed etc...
Also, I think that would be good for Rivals as well, so in DJ battle I could see the wins and losses by difficulty.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.