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Remy
Gold support has been added to both versions of the site. Notecount corrections should go in the appropriate thread on Under Construction; secret songs and courses will be forthcoming as data is revealed. Thanks to rmz for pre-propagating the database.

I've also made a few tweaks on both versions of the site to fix some niggling issues; 4.0 is at least functional again, while 3.0 now uses the HS-style ratings for viewuser. There's also been an API fix or two.

Finally:

The coding of 5-key support was done under the assumption that beatmania US would do reasonably well and spawn sequels, which would likely also have 5-key revivals. Instead, sadly, the game flopped and we're not going to see a follow-up, unless Konami decides to throw a curveball in. As I've mentioned a few places, 5-key support was a massive contingency case, which added an extra set of logic to nearly every function of the site. It's a significant reason 4.0 development stalled out (programmer burnout not withstanding).

With this all in mind, I'm announcing the end of 5-key support effective July 1, 2008. I don't take any great pride in cutting support for a feature that a number of people (including myself) have used, but the numbers make it sort of clear. It's been an extreme amount of logic for what amounts to 17 songs.

I don't intend to leave anyone in the lurch, so here's the tentative timeline I have in mind:

5/27 - Announcement of end of support.
6/15 - No more 5-key scores will be accepted via session mode.
6/20 - All users with 5-key data will have a separate XML export generated of just their 5-key data. This XML file will be held until the end of 2008.
7/1 - 5-key functionality will be removed from the site.

Let me know if you feel strongly about this either way.
chotto kiitena
You could just take the 5 key only songs and treat their charts as 7 key hyper charts for the purposes of score entry, right? If you migrated the scores over that'd solve your problems for all the songs except those that are available in both 5 and 7 key mode in BMUS, and that's only a handful IIRC.
itsgreylolol
Use them on [a], there aren't any charts that have a 5k and [a] entry, are there? At least not on BMUS.

Regardless, the only reason I object, is that it messes up DJP, and ultimately, the number of AAAs I have. As odd as it sounds, I really don't want to have to re-number my AAAs, which I will attempt to do if and when this occurs.

That may just be me though.
Yasserr
awww man, i worked so hard on those 5-key scores, i have like bolds for most of them



oh well
Remy
QUOTE(Xythar @ May 26 2008, 11:57 PM) *
You could just take the 5 key only songs and treat their charts as 7 key hyper charts for the purposes of score entry, right? If you migrated the scores over that'd solve your problems for all the songs except those that are available in both 5 and 7 key mode in BMUS, and that's only a handful IIRC.


11 songs.

QUOTE(itsgreylolol @ May 27 2008, 12:21 AM) *
Use them on [a], there aren't any charts that have a 5k and [a] entry, are there? At least not on BMUS.


5 songs.

Either way, I still have to add a mountain of (new) contingency code to properly label the anothers (or hypers) as 5-key.
Catastrophe
Yeah, I also rocked the fuck out on those 5K charts and got all my best scores there. I guess it's a good thing I never got that 200k on Jam Jam Reggae after all. Because if I did, and my 200k was gone, I'd be sad. Although I'm glad to do it if it makes the coding easier.

Maybe later, after 4.0 and only if anyone still cares, make new songs called "BATTLE BREAKS (5 KEY)" that have only a 7H and 14H. Making 5K a separate level like beginner would've made sense if it meant not having to have two separate songs for 321 Stars. But you have two separate songs for 321 Starts anyway. So you might as well have "TOXIC (5 KEY)" and "TOXIC" as two separate songs.
Team Ragnarok
If it saves you guys extra trouble, I'm all for seeing these go, since there's so few of them anyway.
rmz
AXE THEM in my humble opinion btns.gif
Adman
If there's no simple way to keep them on the site and updateable, then I guess they should go. For the record I'd prefer they didn't, but it sounds like the site as a whole would benefit a lot more from them being gone. If possible, I'd prefer just a simple text file of the scores to be available, I think it'd be more useful to me.

Thanks for the fixing those issues btw, nice to see HS ratings instead of dashes everywhere. aaa.gif
VaderSeven
add them in as L7 songs with their normal song title plus 5key. For example.


You would enter a score in session mode for a song named "Emotion 5key" on the "Light7" difficulty.

that way you just have a seperate entry for every 5 key song that takes a l7 spot and does not share a song title with a song that has L7, H, and A charts already.
SnakesonaplaneplayingIIDX
Personally, I'd rather 5-key be kept, since unlike the recent styles of IIDX, 5-key was an actual difficulty in BMUS and 5-key scores actually saved on that game. In DD CS and GOLD CS, you could play the 5key songs' original chart using the 5key modifier, but the scores wouldn't save, and in the case of GOLD CS, were marked as an Assist Clear, which is worthless IMO.

Here's the dilemma I'm facing: When 5key support is axed, I stand to lose 14 AAAs, 6 AAs, 4 As, 8 PCs, and 13 FCs. That's 244 DJP points if you're counting. I have decided not to renumber my AAA count, since I feel like I earned those scores at one point. AAAing a 5key song, however easy, is still an AAA. Of course, we could debate on whether or not I could AAA the same songs on their original 5key mix PSX games, but that's pointless, since Beatmania and IIDX are entirely different games in terms of interfaces, timing, and scoring.

The biggest problem with the 5key support in BMUS is that Konami didn't implement it very well. They only gave you one difficulty, and that was it. No Normal, Hard, and the occasional Another like the older mixes. Of course, had those difficulties been supported, VJArmy would've been an even bigger mess in View User, what with 5Key Normal, 5Key Hard, and 5key Another now cluttering up the page. I guess that's what Retrofuture is for. *sigh*

I'd say keep it for the nubs who are just getting into IIDX and might like to input their 5key scores, but even nubs don't care about 5key at this point, and BMUS is getting harder to find anyway. So I guess I'll go with no more 5key, since i figured it was inevitable anyway, and I'm just Beating_a_Dead_Horse.gif at this point. But before I say final farewells to 5key, I AA'd e-motion 5key in tribute. So long. wink.gif
Dr. Satan
I personally hate playing on 5-key after I got used to playing with 7 keys. When BM US came out and the 5-key scores were counted, I felt obligated to fill them in, and it felt like a giant waste of time. happy.gif While a select few 5-key songs may have some historical merit, I don't think they are anything relevant in the age of IIDX domination. I think you could also draw a close comparison between beginner mode and 5-key to some extent, which is to say I don't think it is worth scoring on an internet application.
BLUST OF WIND
it really isn't.

Not to mention that BMUS is really the only consistant way to play IIDX songs via 5-key. Cutting the 5-key mod on songs makes the charts feel really sketchy.

(for you stepmania/itg players, its like cutting on the add mines mod...the steps feel so hiccupy)

Besides. if you want to play 5-key, Play Beatmania/III....

Or if you want a challenge, play EZ2DJ....


oh, wait...
DanAdamKOF
I could imagine the frustration of shoehorning in some weird code for only occasional use, so I feel ya if you think it's bad enough that it should be axed.

But I'll be honest, if not for BMUS, I'd probably have no interest in the 5Key beatmanias. I was thinking that once this summer starts getting less hectic I'd go through and try to beat at ton of my old scores, and I was looking forward to redoing BMUS. But I'm sure I'd be one of a very scant few who would actually bother with BMUS's 5Key mode this late in the game.

Sucks that most of my PCs and AAAs came from BMUS's 5Key mode though :<
VaderSeven
What is the status on slaying the 5 Key mode?
Aady
I personally hatred playing on 5-key after I got utilized to playing with 7 keys. When BM US came out and the 5-key scores were counted, I felt compelled to fill them in, and it felt like a giant waste of time. although a select few 5-key songs may have some diachronic merit.
_______________
aady
Addiction Recovery Virginia
Remy
QUOTE(vaderseven @ Jul 18 2008, 09:58 PM) *
What is the status on slaying the 5 Key mode?


Soon. I'm in the middle of moving apartments so things have gotten a little derailed.
Jadin
by YOURSELF?
Tau
Nuke them. As one programmer to another I hate having to support awkwardly bolted-on functionality that doesn't fit nicely into an otherwise elegant system.
Blue Rain
i suppose just add them under 7key as like Jam Jam Reggae(5key) or something
Deoxysapple
For clarification, does the announcement of 5-key support's removal from this site mean that all score tracking information regarding 5-key charts is to be gone? The reason I ask is that July 1 passed several weeks ago, and yet I can still look up ranking information on 5-key songs. What's up?
rmz
QUOTE(Deoxysapple @ Sep 5 2008, 03:14 PM) *
For clarification, does the announcement of 5-key support's removal from this site mean that all score tracking information regarding 5-key charts is to be gone? The reason I ask is that July 1 passed several weeks ago, and yet I can still look up ranking information on 5-key songs. What's up?

QUOTE(Remy)
I'm in the middle of moving apartments so things have gotten a little derailed.
DanAdamKOF
Man, I'm gonna lose so many AAAs and PCs when this happens, lol
jiano
I am in dan adam cough's signature

Also 5.1.1 post
VaderSeven
Beating_a_Dead_Horse.gif Beating_a_Dead_Horse.gif Beating_a_Dead_Horse.gif Beating_a_Dead_Horse.gif

please just leave 5 key as is.... i dont want to be like "this is my 1300th AAA" all over again


/end Beating_a_Dead_Horse.gif Beating_a_Dead_Horse.gif Beating_a_Dead_Horse.gif Beating_a_Dead_Horse.gif
itsgreylolol
Bah, Im leaving my AAA count as is, even after he removes it. They are still AAAs regardless.
jiano
so uh
jiano
Oh so what is the remy/rmz opinion on moving these to like "do you love me (5keys)" as a "light7" chart anyway?

More people seem to care about the 5key charts than the black anothers (given all the people who can AAA PC the 5key charts and seem to be more obsessive than I am with counting these things)

so it's kind of weird to do it for the black charts but not the 5key charts which have hundreds of scores and actually save
itsgreylolol
^ this.
Blue Rain
couldnt agree more about making the songs like title(5key)
under L7

i was perusing around
but you can play double on bmus 5key
should we add these "10 key" charts?
jiano
well I'm pretty sure no one cares about doubles (even the kaidens/10dans), much less 10key lol

at least, no real person (AMERICAN) cares
Blue Rain
someone might wanna do it eventually ;d
over there
Just GET RID OF THE DAMN 5-KEY SONGS LIKE WAS PROMISED A WHILE AGO and we will have no problems btns.gif

I'm not going to play those fuckers ever unless Remy himself comes in here and says HEY GUYS 10-KEY SUPPORT FOR BMUS and he keeps the 5-key entry in too.
Blue Rain
should be in under L7/L14 as (5key) (10key) imo
the scores save and should be usable
jiano
Couldn't rmz add all the 5key/10key songs under L7/L14 really easily if he wanted to? The notecounts have been available for years :P
Catastrophe
QUOTE (VgarneT @ Jan 27 2009, 11:11 AM) *
well I'm pretty sure no one cares about doubles (even the kaidens/10dans), much less 10key lol

at least, no real person (AMERICAN) cares
I'd enter a score for Battle Breaks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No seriously.

1* jam jam reggae - 76
1* overblast!! - 285
1* you gotta groove - 93

2* do you love me - 223
2* e-motion - 124
2* First Day - 373
2* Funkytown - 278
2* love so groovy - 227

3* Hunting For You - 338
3* la bossanova de fabulous - 341
3* Lift Me Up - 290
3* Paranoia Max ~dirty mix~ - 200
3* s.d.z. - 175
3* Stop Violence! - 173
3* The Way U Move - 258
3* Toxic - 371
3* Virtual Insanity - 209

4* 20, November (special subtitle) - 352
4* Celebration - 390
4* Metal Gear (remix) - 173
4* You Really Got Me - 301

5* Battle Breaks - 299

6* Attack the Music - 378 (GJH)
6* Manmachine Plays Gambol - 492 (GJH)
6* Tribe Groove - 259 (GJH)

7* 321 Stars - 436
7* Genom Screams - 745
7* Ska a Go Go - 507

Technically 20, November has a special subtitle when it is played in 10K mode. But no one cares and I didn't even check to see if they implemented the subtitle in Gold. Also, BMUS has the dumbest DP ratings ever. In every single case the number is determined by the following rule: first what it was in any random 5K game, second what it is on 14N. This 1-7 scale makes no sense in any context at all. The numbers are literally from different decades! (And the 14A ratings being the same as the 14H ratings? This isn't 3th style! Even 9th style had anothers rated separately from the hypers.) Since everything is kind of easy anyway, I recommend using rating = notecount/80 except that the GJH songs should stay at least 5*.
rmz
QUOTE (Catastrophe @ Jan 31 2009, 06:51 PM) *
And the 14A ratings being the same as the 14H ratings? This isn't 3th style! Even 9th style had anothers rated separately from the hypers

Uh rated Anothers were introduced in Happy Sky
waffles
QUOTE (rmz @ Feb 1 2009, 12:16 AM) *
Uh rated Anothers were introduced in Happy Sky

or RED CS (might have been happy sky AC, but RED CS definitely has them. 10th doesn't.)
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