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Schlagwerk
QUOTE (djplaeskool @ Mar 9 2010, 08:41 AM) *
Also, just a general question, why is there so much hate for FFXII? That game was fantastic.

FFXII was all the grinding of an MMO without the social aspect so you could dig wag at the other players to show off how much grinding you've done
Axem Rangers
so when does sadness come out
spineshark
QUOTE (djplaeskool @ Mar 9 2010, 09:41 AM) *
Also, just a general question, why is there so much hate for FFXII? That game was fantastic.

The world and stuff was great. I also liked the gambits system, but in the end they still dropped the ball with the combat and character building. Yeah, it's great that I didn't actually *select* "attack" a million times over the course of the game, but it would be nicer if they, I don't know, made a game where the combat was deeper than selecting attack a million times and healing from time to time.

And the story was probably Matsuno's weakest but still miles ahead of anything else other people at Square tend to come up with.
Eggman of the Strata
XII's story was weak because it was never finished. He became ill, pulled out of the team and then left Square and Square just finished up what was there.

XIII's so far one of my favorites. I don't know what Jadin's going on about (but then again, I rarely do when it comes to games). I've found a bunch of fights where I've had to shift to only magic or debuff things first. And you can use potions instantly if you want to heal.

And technically there are towns. Cocoon's just one gigantic one ohoho.
chotto kiitena
QUOTE (deathrazor @ Mar 9 2010, 11:21 AM) *
Yikes, now I REALLY have no desire to pick it up.


Oh so you'll listen to Jadin but not me btns.gif

I've been using autobattle all game, I've never had a problem with it picking the wrong kind of attack (aoe vs single target etc). Overall, it's pretty smart. I haven't gotten the healing role yet for my leader but it doesn't really matter because if you set someone to medic they will heal you or whoever needs it immediately without fucking around. The AI is pretty awesome.

It's just a very different way of battlling. Instead of micromanaging each individual action (which you don't have time to), you just play the macro-strategy of the whole battle, keeping an eye on your HP and the enemy's stagger gauge and switching roles accordingly as they go up and down. So you might start with a Commando, Synergist and Saboteur until everyone's buffed/debuffed, switch to Commando/Ravager/Ravager to build up the stagger gauge (or just start here if you don't care about buffs), and occasionally switch to something like Commando/Ravager/Medic if your HP gets knocked down a little. You can't just keep the medic in forever though because you gotta keep the pressure on the enemy at all times or the stagger gauge runs out and it takes forever to kill.

You can also try Ravager/Ravager/Ravager but that's basically high risk high reward, the stagger bar fills up really quick but empties quickly as well. I usually throw in a Commando to smooth things out a bit.

I didn't really notice too much in the way of menu delays? it's literally like half a second when you choose a character, probably the same kind of time any other menu would use to make windows slide on and off the screen or whatever. Not really an issue
grayfox9996
QUOTE (chotto kiitena @ Mar 9 2010, 01:42 PM) *
Oh so you'll listen to Jadin but not me btns.gif

you think persona 3 is a good rpg

though i dont know what jadin thinks about that game i am more likely to listen to him in this regard

no offense bro
chotto kiitena
QUOTE (grayfox9996 @ Mar 9 2010, 04:44 PM) *
you think persona 3 is a good rpg


It is, although it's basically nothing at all like ff13

What else

There's nothing much to buy so far but I don't really care, the item customisation comes later anyway

There's some choice when developing your characters because you have to pick which roles to build up

And yeah there are enemies that are immune to physical damage or magic damage or whatever so there will be cases when you need to use only magic or physical attacks. Your allies are pretty smart like that though and will use whatever works best.

The full HP thing is awesome because it turns the battles into individual challenges instead of a resource management meta challenge

oh boy :eggman: ing it up here
Axem Rangers
QUOTE (chotto kiitena @ Mar 9 2010, 03:52 PM) *
It is, although it's basically nothing at all like ff13

What else

There's nothing much to buy so far but I don't really care, the item customisation comes later anyway

There's some choice when developing your characters because you have to pick which roles to build up

And yeah there are enemies that are immune to physical damage or magic damage or whatever so there will be cases when you need to use only magic or physical attacks. Your allies are pretty smart like that though and will use whatever works best.

The full HP thing is awesome because it turns the battles into individual challenges instead of a resource management meta challenge

oh boy :eggman: ing it up here

don't talk about eggy that way okay he's not the World's Biggest Miku Hatsune Fan
chotto kiitena
QUOTE (Axem Rangers @ Mar 9 2010, 03:54 PM) *
don't talk about eggy that way okay he's not the World's Biggest Miku Hatsune Fan


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A
Axem Rangers
chotto kiitena
Thanks!

Anyway Jadin it's worth remembering that FF13 is by the FFX team, and by this point in FFX there weren't many weapons either and battle strategy consisted largely of "if enemy is flying, switch in Wakka". Plus linear sphere grid as well at that point, etc. Later on your characters get more roles and you have to choose which of those to level up as well, which is basically the same as leveling up specific jobs or whatever.

I've definitely fought several enemies so far that would have taken forever to kill without staggering them so you should get used to that system. Like I said, the idea is to use a combination of Commandos and Ravagers to build the gauge while keeping as much pressure as possible, switching to a more defensive paradigm when necessary. I suspect it'd work better to switch to a party of commandos when the enemy is actually staggered but I don't have enough commandos to actually do that yet tongue.gif

And yeah, use auto battle. It takes too long to manually stock your own commands and it's more tedious besides.
grayfox9996
QUOTE (chotto kiitena @ Mar 9 2010, 01:52 PM) *
It is, although it's basically nothing at all like ff13

its a jrpg there is no difference

But seriously, I thought everything about P3 was weak besides the art style and soundtrack (story, characters, setting, level/dungeon design, combat system, etc.). At least FFXIII sounds a lot better than most of the JRPGs I've played in the past few years in terms of gameplay - I'm not really one to care about linearity (although some games really should be non-linear and vice versa - the recent Wolfenstein, for example, really needed to be a linear game), and breaking JRPG conventions is a good thing, in my book. The lack of customization early on is a little disheartening, but I could deal with that. The story sounds like shit, and the dialogue and voice acting is terrible (hell even the Japanese didn't sound very good), but that's par for the course. So long as either the gameplay and/or story are good enough, I'll play it at some point. It's Final Fantasy - I play all of them eventually.
chotto kiitena
I quite like the story and characters so far because the characters are so damn flawed that it's actually quite refreshing (Snow especially). I'm hoping that they'll pull a Tales of the Abyss on this one.

Also I may not have mentioned this yet but the graphics are great and the music is fucking awesome.

The game is more based around what you do in battle than what you do outside of it, fair warning. I know that in the endgame/postgame you can basically max everyone out for every role and have their best equipment but some of the optional marks will still stomp all over you unless you know exactly what you are doing. Once the extended tutorial phase ends it's apparently the hardest FF in a long time.
Eggman of the Strata
The story's really good so far and I like all of the characters. Hope's actually written to be a kid that understands that he sucks, which has to be a first for video games.

Using Libra tells you an enemy's weaknesses and your allies will then specifically target those weaknesses, if there are any. Hitting them through trial and error will also make them change tactics.

Oh, also, weapon and accessory customization's actually pretty cool. I like that certain items work better and give bonuses and then you use your higher exp items and the various weapons all have pretty different stat growth.
grayfox9996
QUOTE (chotto kiitena @ Mar 9 2010, 02:32 PM) *
the music is fucking awesome.

I completely forgot to mention this in my views of what I've seen, but fuck, I get the battle theme stuck in my head and I haven't even played the game yet, it is that awesome. It has to be the best battle music I've ever heard for a JRPG.
chotto kiitena
The boss theme is really good too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbN3FIYdEZE

Loving the jazzy scattered piano at the start and also when it breaks into triumphant sounding brass at 0:42 or so
Theoretically Gay
QUOTE (chotto kiitena @ Mar 9 2010, 03:42 PM) *
It's just a very different way of battlling. Instead of micromanaging each individual action (which you don't have time to), you just play the macro-strategy of the whole battle, keeping an eye on your HP and the enemy's xxx and switching roles accordingly

That description only makes me want to play SMT Nocturne now.
annoying bitch
World's Biggest Miku Hatsune Fan

do I get to have autism too now
maybe play a couple gbc games instead of ff13
Axem Rangers
now?
annoying bitch
check out dat Wild Ride Defense Squad
4 minutes to the scene
Axem Rangers
post so fast I might break the prison glass
chotto kiitena
QUOTE (Chronomistress K @ Mar 9 2010, 04:52 PM) *
World's Biggest Miku Hatsune Fan

do I get to have autism too now
maybe play a couple gbc games instead of ff13


sounds like you better "TRI HARDER NEXX TIME"

OH SNAP

better get checked into the BURN WARD
annoying bitch
Axem Rangers
WILD RIDE
I hope I brought burn heal.

So who wants to give me their FFXIV PS3 beta code thingy, or whatever it is. If I get in, I'll stop posting for a month. blush.gif
chotto kiitena
honestly considering it

but I think I'd rather see if I can trade for someone's 360 code so I can get sweet avatar items
Eggman of the Strata
Very tempting.
Mazrim
QUOTE (WILD RIDE @ Mar 9 2010, 03:37 PM) *
So who wants to give me their FFXIV PS3 beta code thingy, or whatever it is. If I get in, I'll stop posting for a month. blush.gif

Is it in the FFXIII box? If so, it's not my copy but I'll give you the code since I know we won't use it.

Also, I've only seen the intro sequence before you hit start and the first cinematic and first fight, but the game looks and sounds awesome. Music was very impressive and the visuals look incredible, though we just bought a new TV this weekend so going from CRT to 1080p widescreen is a bit of an upgrade.

(too bad TV channels look like shit now)
Jadin
well I guess another problem I have with it is being able to restart a battle. If you're not doing well just hit start and back, and you're at the beginning for free! Even if you die you start back again right before the point where you died. There's not really any incentive to try, because there's no consequences for dying. So there's not really any point in making sure you don't make any mistakes. Basically I go into every battle thinking "It doesn't matter what happens because if I screw up I won't get punished in any way". So what I'm trying to say is that there's no downfall to dying. In other words, fighting as a whole is kind of pointless. What's really going on is that you don't have to think about your battle strategy. It's basically the opposite of ADOM. Or maybe like IWBTG: the rpg. It doesn't matter if you die. I mean what kind of message to send to children is that. Pretty soon nobody will have the will to live. In summary it's like how I hate that in Forza 3 there's a rewind button. Basically there's no point in trying because if you mess up you can just patch up your mistake. Which brings me back to ff13. If you mess up you can just patch up your mistake. You don't have to worry about battle, because there's no real challenge. And there never will be. Osrg said he died 75 times at the last boss or something. I mean that was secondhand information so he could have been exaggerating. But I'm pretty sure the game instilled him with a sense of 'hey, battles don't matter' and he carried it with him into the final boss. And that's what I'll do too. Because there's no consequences for losing, so who cares. Just go. Rush into battle and press 'A' a lot. I mean the cool part of other final fantasies is that you have to hit 'down' before 'A' sometimes so you cure or buff instead of attackand that shit is amazing. You gotta think about when to cast cure. But there's no thinking in ff13. It's basically the opposite of CHESS. In chess you have to think about your situation and every move matters. In ff13 you have to think about going into work late because your stomach hurts and you'd rather type repetatively about the shallow combat system. Did I mention ADOM. ADOM is kind of like this chess RPG because you need to think about your situation, and you can't really take combat for granted or else you'll die. And when you die you're done. No loading save. You're done. Which is kind of the opposite of ff13: IWBTG. There's no point in caring. I mean, just go. Oh, did you die? Lol who cares go again. No we're not going to punish you by making you go back to the last save point that was 10 seconds back (man do they really need these save points at every corner). It's ok because you'll just reload right before the battle. I mean maybe if you try to beat the game without dying once. But who cares about stuff like that, because it's ff13. It doesn't record your deaths. I mean if you play a game like ADOM or chess, the only way to beat the game is without dying. Gotta fight to stay alive. And staying alive means caring. But in ff13 there's no point in caring about what you do because you can just do the same thing again. Maybe some of you are reading this long post and thinking I'm trying too hard. But I'm not really trying at all. I mean, I've played ff13 and I've played adom so I know the difference in trying and not trying. Anyway I'm late for work so I'll stop typing now.
chotto kiitena
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/03/1...oject_diva_ps3/

Project Diva Arcade CS! If you plug in your PSP.

Hell yeah

edit: sheesh jadin wall of text much btns.gif

There is an incentive to not die because if you die you can't get past the battle! So eventually you will have to play the battle in such a way as not to die, unless you just really like playing that battle over and over forever.

It makes sense to me?? Like I said I died randomly early on and I'd be pretty pissed if I had to redo even like 20 mins of stuff from the last save point because of it

In the end I guess I don't understand why you want the game to punish you, but then I never understood why people play stuff like roguelikes or diablo2 hardcore mode either because if I played a game for like 30 hours then lost all my work I'd probably stop playing games forever
Eggman of the Strata
Hey man I got to the last level of Steel Battalion and then during the last section my cat jumped up on my lap and I ended up dying and my cat blocked me from hitting the eject button so I lost my save too and that makes the game super awesome because of consequences.

If you want an RPG that openly punishes you for doing anything wrong, even when you have no way of knowing what's right or wrong, play Last Remnant.
WILD RIDE
QUOTE (Mazrim @ Mar 9 2010, 06:00 PM) *
Is it in the FFXIII box? If so, it's not my copy but I'll give you the code since I know we won't use it.


I'm not 100% on what you have to do, but I think what everyone is saying is you have to register the game on their website (so you'd have to let me register that copy, which I don't think really does anything unless you buy like 10 more new SE games this year and then you get a crappy prize), and then there's another code somewhere you have also have to enter. In the manual, maybe?
chotto kiitena
There's a code that comes on a piece of paper in the game box.
djplaeskool
QUOTE (Rowen of the Strata @ Mar 9 2010, 06:21 PM) *
If you want an RPG that openly punishes you for doing anything wrong, even when you have no way of knowing what's right or wrong, play Last Remnant.


oh god Last Remnant.
The difficulty of that game ramped up something fierce.
One Niceass Individual
QUOTE (Chronomistress K @ Mar 9 2010, 01:52 PM) *
World's Biggest Miku Hatsune Fan

do I get to have autism too now
maybe play a couple gbc games instead of ff13

I think your making a mistake labeling people in this thread as autistic. Autism is a communication disorder, and we know that if you can communicate your opinions on the following:
- Sega's awful choice in Bayonetta's character design (Not like they've ever made a character that ridiculous before)
- The amazing library for the legendary handheld that is the Game Boy Color
- Every IIDX OST after Happy Sky has been terrible (They just dont measure up to great songs like Poodle, Spark, I am, Lesson 5, vault of heaven, or 100% minimooG)
- The fact that pop'n CS has been discontinued is a disgrace (Ignore the fact that popn15+ can be emulated on a PC, it won't work on MY PC, and don't tell me to spend a few hundred bucks to upgrade it because I have to spend my money on more video games, such as Super Metroid on the virtual console, which I play the same way every time. Also, I hate the phrase "swung timing".)

then your probably not autistic!!!!
WILD RIDE
I hope those weren't all supposed to be me, because they were pretty off. And I thought we'd been through the 'all the games in my GBC backloggery are either beaten, or null' thing.

Also, I never would've bought a game where Rouge was the main character, you kidding me.
chotto kiitena
QUOTE (WILD RIDE @ Mar 9 2010, 08:51 PM) *
WILD RIDE

One Niceass Individual
Oh my bad, I guess Pop'n CS hasn't been discontinued. It's been made even better by being turned into a portable game!
Axem Rangers
QUOTE (Junglist King @ Mar 9 2010, 08:00 PM) *
Oh my bad, I guess Pop'n CS hasn't been discontinued. It's been made even better by being turned into a portable game!

ohm
spineshark
QUOTE (chotto kiitena @ Mar 9 2010, 04:03 PM) *
There is an incentive to not die because if you die you can't get past the battle! So eventually you will have to play the battle in such a way as not to die, unless you just really like playing that battle over and over forever.

It makes sense to me?? Like I said I died randomly early on and I'd be pretty pissed if I had to redo even like 20 mins of stuff from the last save point because of it

Yeah seriously, Try Again is the second best feature an RPG can have basically, after cutscene skip which is (shock!) also in this game!
QUOTE
In the end I guess I don't understand why you want the game to punish you, but then I never understood why people play stuff like roguelikes or diablo2 hardcore mode either because if I played a game for like 30 hours then lost all my work I'd probably stop playing games forever

That's not even the same at all though. When the focus is completely on surviving it's a totally different game. Even when it's the same.
rmz
Infinity Ward should've not wasted their time doing the single player campaign for MW2 and just sold the game for $40 (haha yeah right but you know).

Seriously I want my 6 hours back.
grayfox9996
QUOTE (rmz @ Mar 9 2010, 07:31 PM) *
Infinity Ward should've not wasted their time doing the single player campaign for MW2 and just sold the game for $40 (haha yeah right but you know).

Seriously I want my 6 hours back.

Yeah that campaign was pretty sad. I don't know why I'm still holding onto that game, either - I haven't even touched multiplayer yet outside of some Spec Ops (which ARE really fun, by the way).

Also, Hakan looks amazing and hilarious. Jump in counter Ultra, hooray!
WILD RIDE
Why is he red.
BBH
QUOTE (grayfox9996 @ Mar 9 2010, 07:17 PM) *
Also, Hakan looks amazing and hilarious. Jump in counter Ultra, hooray!



Eggman of the Strata
Dee Jay smiles the whole way through.

security tubbs
QUOTE (Rowen of the Strata @ Mar 9 2010, 03:21 PM) *
If you want an RPG that openly punishes you for doing anything wrong, even when you have no way of knowing what's right or wrong, play Last Remnant.

I keep hoping this will be part of Steam's mega Square/Eidos sale this week.

I want to try that so bad but I cannot justify $40+ on the fucker.
Mazrim
QUOTE (WILD RIDE @ Mar 9 2010, 04:35 PM) *
I'm not 100% on what you have to do, but I think what everyone is saying is you have to register the game on their website (so you'd have to let me register that copy, which I don't think really does anything unless you buy like 10 more new SE games this year and then you get a crappy prize), and then there's another code somewhere you have also have to enter. In the manual, maybe?

There's a code and a note saying I should register the game and such. My girlfriend says she wants to play the beta, but I'm certain she won't end up doing that...so if the beta rolls around and you haven't got a code give me a shout again.
WILD RIDE
Blah. Well, thanks anyway.
chotto kiitena
QUOTE (Shades of Grey @ Mar 10 2010, 12:34 AM) *
I keep hoping this will be part of Steam's mega Square/Eidos sale this week.

I want to try that so bad but I cannot justify $40+ on the fucker.


The demo's still up, isn't it?

I tried it but I am turned off by the way that you spend about 90% of each battle just watching your characters attack other characters, over and over
Eggman of the Strata
PC version has a turbo mode I guess. You should be more turned off by the idea that at some point the game will make you do 3 45 minute long boss battles in a row with no chance of saving and they're all impossibly hard and grinding only makes them more difficult. And that large birds can use Curse, which hits 100% of the time and gives you a random chance of instant death every turn. And by random chance I mean 100% chance. And mechanics that are never explained in any way. And that telling one of your guys to do one thing wrong when they ask if they should be physical or magic means that that character will become worthless later in the game when you pretty much need them to be awesome.

And if you want a hideous character, look no further than Rush Sykes. "Thanks, Dave! This is ACE!" indeed.

But I trudged my way through it. A real trooper, that's what I am.
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