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> ASCs vs. small controllers
What's your opinion about arcade-style controllers versus "small" controllers?
What's your opinion about arcade-style controllers versus "small" controllers?
ASCs are the only way to go! It's the way the game was meant to be played. [ 49 ] ** [49.49%]
ASCs are the only way to go! Small controllers make the game too easy. [ 13 ] ** [13.13%]
Either kind is fine! Whatever floats your boat -- it's all personal preference. [ 30 ] ** [30.30%]
Small controllers are the way to go! ASCs aren't worth the price! [ 6 ] ** [6.06%]
Other, please specify [ 1 ] ** [1.01%]
Total Votes: 99
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rmz
post Sep 5 2004, 05:29 AM
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There's always been the age-old debate about playing home Pop'n Music on arcade-style controllers versus small controllers. This thread is mainly intended to be a discussion about the pros and cons about each kind of controller, to help new players make the choice of which kind of controller to start out with, since the difference between "cheap" and "arcade-style" controllers for Pop'n is so much greater than with any other Bemani.

For reference, and to inform the new players, the buttons on an arcade-sized Pop'n Music controller are somewhere around 3.5" across (I forget the exact measurement). Buttons on the small controller measure approximately 1.5"-2" across, with the buttons grouped far more close together. The end result is that ASCs are usually around 2.5'-3' in width, while the small controllers are somewhere around 1' wide -- making for a HUGE difference in gameplay experience. It's still very much Pop'n music, but playing on a small controller uses just your fingers for the most part, whereas playing on a full-sized controllers uses the whole of your hand.

As far as pros of the small controllers go, they're far less expensive, they're more compact and more portable, they're more durable (that is, I would say that a small controller is far more likely to work perfectly if you dropped it off of a shelf than an ASC would), and they may be less intimidating for new players to play on, rather than a behemoth ASC.

What's your opinion? Any thoughts on the topic at all are welcomed.
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Nomi
post Sep 5 2004, 09:51 AM
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To be fair, I have only played once, briefly. It's of my bystander's opinion that I wouldn't want to play on a small controller. I have two reasons for that.

One, it's not how it's supposed to be. I'm a stickler for that. If IIDX had tiny cramped keys and a button instead of a turntable on the official controller, I'm sure lots of people would throw a fit. I would, anyway.

Secondly, I have a personal issue with small buttons. I lack feeling in my left hand and cramped buttons make it incredibly hard for me to play anything. Big, domed buttons that make noise when you mash them would greatly help me, there.
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flux
post Sep 5 2004, 09:53 AM
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I think it's whatever you can afford or have acesses to. I played with a small controller for a while before the ASC, and when I got the ASC, I was almost at the same level within a few hours. I don't think either one overall makes the game easier than the other one.

I do think that the ASC is way more fun to play, though.


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sanchny
post Sep 5 2004, 09:57 AM
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So... how do I pick two choices? I pick A and B. tongue.gif

I got my ASC only a week ago, but the difference is really clear. It's a completely different game playing with the ASC than with the small controller. I might as well add C to the list of my answers, since someone can play on the small controller if they prefer; I'm not going to hound them that they're not playing Pop'n properly. They just need to understand that it's a completely different experience.

Playing with a small controller for me just ends up being a 9 button IIDX with no turntable and more sensitive (round) buttons. An ASC is nowhere near that, and for someone to give up on Pop'n because they've only tried the small controller and deemed it to be a IIDX derivative (regardless of which came first) isn't fair.

The difference isn't just the width of the controllers, but also that the controllers on an ASC are domed. For many reasons (that I don't think I can pin down completely), I think the ASC is tons more fun. I recomend it over the small controller any day, and price isn't much of a counterargument any more because of Ransai's economy controllers. It's been slightly frustrating for me dropping a few (... a lot) of levels in difficulty, but I don't mind because it's a completely different game. I don't need a IIDX derivative. IIDX does a pretty good job of being itself.
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Remy
post Sep 5 2004, 10:05 AM
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I'll give you that it's certainly more fun to be playing on an ASC, but I have no problem with people playing on whatever they want.

I mean, hell, I played on a Dual Shock for most of the PNN development to this point.


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Lunarius
post Sep 5 2004, 12:14 PM
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Well considering I still have to play Dual Shock, I don't mind too much what people use to play Pop'n happy.gif However, playing on an ASC is THE way to go with it, no doubt about it. As soon as I can get the rest of my buttons i'm building my ASC as fast as I can so I can have that real experience again. Its something about all the arm movement and hand motions that you don't do in IIDX make it so much fun.
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chotto kiitena
post Sep 5 2004, 12:44 PM
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I don't think I'd bother getting a small controller because well, I'd just feel like I might as well be playing IIDX.

The ASC for me is what makes PnM, PnM.


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Sardius
post Sep 6 2004, 03:09 PM
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I have absolutely no problems playing with the original controller. But hey, if you have more money than sense, then by all means go for the ASC. It's unnecessarily gigantic, and as a bonus, it's also really loud and annoying!

(this isn't to say that I don't want one, though. it all depends on how obscene desktop arcade is willing to go on commissioned controller art)


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Shapermc
post Sep 7 2004, 10:54 AM
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After getting to the level 24 range (before I had played IIDX) with a small custom controller for Pop'n I can say that it is definatly easier. The higher up in level the more aparent this is. Button combos like Red+Yellow or White+Blue are possible on the small controlles where as on an ASC (with out super long fingers) they are not possible.

Anyways, I could not go back to the smaller controller, but really don't care what others use. I would not mind an option of selecting which controller your using so that if your challangeing people and they are just a few points ahead of you and it is due to a weird note combonation that an ASC has a harder time with it would make a bit more sence.

Any thing that can be done on a small can be done on an ASC.
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BBH
post Sep 7 2004, 02:18 PM
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QUOTE (Sardius @ Sep 6 2004, 03:09 PM)
I have absolutely no problems playing with the original controller. But hey, if you have more money than sense, then by all means go for the ASC. It's unnecessarily gigantic, and as a bonus, it's also really loud and annoying!
*


Apparently the small controller can be loud and annoying to people too dry.gif


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Deets
post Sep 7 2004, 05:15 PM
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Speaking of the tiny-size controller, folks, there are a bunch of what look to be pirate small controllers on eBay at the moment. I'm assuming they're pirated due to the fact that there are no identifying marks on the controller whatsoever (like the ko-nami logo for example), and the plug is lacking a Konami logo. I think. It's hard to tell, but I'm pretty sure it's some other strange pirate logo. Anyway, has anyone played with one of these? I'm thinking "they can't possibly be that bad", especially considering that I can't imagine them going for more than $20 or so. But! Surely someone here could give me better info. Surely.
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Random
post Sep 7 2004, 05:34 PM
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QUOTE (JDM_Deets @ Sep 7 2004, 05:15 PM)
But! Surely someone here could give me better info. Surely.

I could give you better info. And don't call me Shirley.

Those are modded versions of the Crazy Hit controllers, the ones from China that sell for $5. I think it's pingu that does most of them these days, but it takes just a little solder work and you can wire it for Pop'n. Apparently they're decently sensitive compared to Konami's.
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rmz
post Sep 7 2004, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE (Random @ Sep 7 2004, 03:34 PM)
And don't call me Shirley.
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Deets
post Sep 8 2004, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE (Random @ Sep 7 2004, 04:34 PM)
Those are modded versions of the Crazy Hit controllers, the ones from China that sell for $5. I think it's pingu that does most of them these days, but it takes just a little solder work and you can wire it for Pop'n. Apparently they're decently sensitive compared to Konami's.
*

Ooh, great. Hopefully it'll have shoddy pirate wiring too! "Decently sensitive" is probably good enough. Also: having extremely low standards is great when it comes to making these kind of decisions.
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Sardius
post Sep 10 2004, 11:44 PM
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QUOTE (BBH @ Sep 7 2004, 02:18 PM)
Apparently the small controller can be loud and annoying to people too  dry.gif
*

eheh...yeah, sorry again about that sad.gif My new place has much better separation between rooms though, so next time everybody can pop all they damn please.

By the way, does anyone know if ASCs have problems with sticky buttons at all? The small controller's buttons stick a little sometimes, but not often enough to be annoying. I've never heard anything about ASCs though, so I wonder.


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this thread is the nadir of my very important japanese rhythm game experience >:(((
QUOTE(Spiral Zer0 @ Aug 30 2006, 01:25 AM) [snapback]84394[/snapback]
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rmz
post Sep 11 2004, 12:56 PM
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QUOTE (Sardius @ Sep 10 2004, 09:44 PM)
By the way, does anyone know if ASCs have problems with sticky buttons at all? The small controller's buttons stick a little sometimes, but not often enough to be annoying. I've never heard anything about ASCs though, so I wonder.
*

It can vary from button to button, and if you do get that problem, there's a way that you can fix it (open up the button and sand down a disc that's in there a little). A lot of my buttons feel subtly different from one another (some looser, some tighter), but it's not a big enough deal to make me take my buttons out to fix it.
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J.R.
post Sep 12 2004, 01:00 AM
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I have a small Pop'n controller.And first off is it sensitive I mean you can barely touch it and it registers.The only reason I have a mini Pop'n controller is because I am getting an ASC in a few months but I wanted something to play on untill I get my ASC.It works fine but is almost impossible to play anything hard like Classic 4 lol that was fun.


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Kilroy
post Sep 12 2004, 01:34 AM
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Correct me if I m wrong here, but isn't this poll a little biased?

I mean the first and second option are basically the same thing. 0_o

So there are 2 options for if you are all about the ASC, 2 for if you don't care/don't know, and only one option for if you like the small one..

I guess play on what you can afford or are willing to spend your money on?


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Oogami
post Oct 24 2004, 01:20 PM
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First off, I know this thread is old, but I just haven't gotten around to reading it until now.

I didn't get an ASC (despite having the opportunity to) because I don't enjoy Pop N' enough to spend that much money on the game.

However, there's one point against the small controllers that I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet: not only are they incredibly sensitive to the point of annoyance sometimes, they also occasionally don't register at all! I've been robbed of 100Ks a number of times because one of the damn blue buttons (and 90% of the time non-registering buttons are the blue ones on both my controller and a friend's) just decides not to work for a note. It's so frustratingly annoying that it's part of the reason why I don't play PnM that much.


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Random
post Oct 24 2004, 08:51 PM
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But when you own an ASC, gameplay becomes narcoticly fun.

That, and Pop'n's niche market is probably why it's so alienating for those who don't play, and why the player community is so rabidly addicted. I don't know, I like it. happy.gif
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