Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

Solid State Squad Forums _ Last Message _ [VJA] Beatmania US Support

Posted by: Remy Mar 29 2006, 09:35 PM

I'm happy to note that the first of four phases towards getting our Beatmania US support done is complete.

You will find the appropriate buttons and whatnot for all the songs already in our database to appear under the US game list.

Before you ask any questions about this, please read http://vjarmy.com/wiki/index.php/VJA:US_Support from top to bottom.

Edit 3/30 - US exclusives have been added for L7 and 7. Thanks to Taren and sanchny for the data.

Next step, adding the 7-key note changes and starting on 5-key.

Posted by: rmz Mar 29 2006, 09:47 PM

Cool :3

Posted by: TheWertle Mar 29 2006, 09:57 PM

are scores from US going to show up on the sig. just wondering as the grading is different and all, even though the timing is the same...

I suppose you could just grade everything as if it were JP IIDX and we could all disregard the grades that the game actually gives...

Posted by: rmz Mar 29 2006, 10:02 PM

Read the support page that he linked, that's exactly the way he's going to do it.

Posted by: TheWertle Mar 29 2006, 11:15 PM

oh my god i feel like such an idiot...
sorry

Posted by: Jadin Mar 30 2006, 01:15 PM

don't beat yourself up over a small mistake =P

Thanks, Remy. Doesn't seem like it will be too much BS.

Posted by: Taren Mar 30 2006, 01:54 PM

SNOW (Hyper) has also been changed. It has the same notecount, but the scales are completely restructured.

Are Music To Your Head and SHining Polaris also like this, or do they have different notecounts?

Posted by: Taren Mar 30 2006, 02:25 PM

Nooootecounts

Funkytown - ???/278/-
You Really Got Me (3/4/-) 138 BPM - ???/321/-
Lift Me up (3/4/-) 121 BPM - ???/388/-
Virtual Insanity (2/3/-) 100 BPM - ???/218/-
Celebration (3/4/-) 121 BPM - ???/352/-

I have never used the towel so much in my life

Posted by: VxJasonxV Mar 30 2006, 04:30 PM

Enlighten someone who's half out of the loop and hasn't gotten his copy yet.

"We will also not be supporting money scores as a ranking metric." What are money scores? O_O

Posted by: Remy Mar 30 2006, 04:34 PM

QUOTE(VxJasonxV @ Mar 30 2006, 04:30 PM) *
"We will also not be supporting money scores as a ranking metric." What are money scores? O_O


Money score is the score out of 200,000 you get on a song that has nothing to do with anything, and is the basis for high scores in arcade mode.

BMUS doesn't show Ex scores on the grade up window, it shows money.

The name "money score" comes from the fact that in the early 5-key games, your score was called "money", presumably to represent the riches you make as a DJ. Many people still refer to them as this, even though it's not been referred to in-game as such for ages.

This needs to go on the wiki, I can feel it. smile.gif

Posted by: Kirby Kirby Kirby Mar 30 2006, 04:48 PM

Added to the FAQ: http://vjarmy.com/wiki/index.php/IIDX_General_Info

Posted by: Remy Mar 30 2006, 04:55 PM

Added the way I had originally envisioned it, although yours works too, K3.

Posted by: rmz Mar 30 2006, 06:32 PM

QUOTE(Remy)
K3

At first, I thought that was supposed to be some weird sort of smiley.

Posted by: sanchny Mar 30 2006, 07:45 PM

QUOTE(rmz @ Mar 30 2006, 06:32 PM) *
At first, I thought that was supposed to be some weird sort of smiley.

Remy? Smile? Never!



tongue.gif

Posted by: Remy Mar 30 2006, 08:14 PM


Posted by: PkerUNO Mar 30 2006, 08:16 PM

Wait. That reminds me of something.

http://imageshack.us

Posted by: Kirby Kirby Kirby Mar 30 2006, 09:11 PM

I thought you were going to make a Slake joke.


Thank god it wasn't. mellow.gif

Posted by: Team Ragnarok Mar 30 2006, 11:07 PM

Jam Jam Reggae only has 60 notes, not 62. I believe it's one of the charts they changed, because I don't remember it having free zones before.

Free zones don't seem to count toward your EX score or your combo in any way.

Posted by: Remy Mar 30 2006, 11:32 PM

JJR has been fixed.

Posted by: Catastrophe Mar 30 2006, 11:44 PM

Music To Your Head, song #291, is in this game too.

JJR and Overblast are gonna get 200k'ed four times every week. I can't wait to have a perfect score non-bolded. I better hurry the heck up.

Posted by: Monster-in-a-box! Mar 30 2006, 11:57 PM

So, the only songs that were changed on 7 key were the ones listed right? 'Cause I AAA'd The Cube [7], and In my Eyes [7], but I wanna make sure I can enter them.

Posted by: blackstar Mar 31 2006, 01:32 AM

Wouldn't it be easier to send the 5-key portion of BM USA to Retrofuture instead of implementing it here?

Posted by: PkerUNO Mar 31 2006, 01:36 AM

QUOTE(blackstar @ Mar 31 2006, 03:32 PM) *
Wouldn't it be easier to send the 5-key portion of BM USA to Retrofuture instead of implementing it here?


No?

Posted by: Jadin Mar 31 2006, 03:27 AM

Might as well make myself useful.

Expert course listings:
(Light/Standard/Heavy notecount)

IIDX01:
(1212/1919/3165)
Digital MinD (A/T Libra mix)
GENOM SCREAMS
MUSIC TO YOUR HEAD
Holic
NEMESIS

IIDX02:
(1076/1610/2185)
Toxic
Nothin Ain't Stoppin' Us
I Was The One
M-02stp.ver 1.01
Spin the Disc

IIDX03:
fly through the night
THE SHINING POLARIS
in my eyes
Attitude
Colors (radio edit)

IIDX04:
Hitch Hiker
The Way You Move
You Really Got Me
Mobo*Moga
BAD BOY BASS! (dj Remo-con MIX)

IIDX05:
(?/?/3159)
PARANOiA MAX~DIRTY MIX~
OUTER LIMITS
SNOW
LOVE IS DREAMINESS
era (nostalmix)

IIDX06:
Digital MinD (A/T Libra mix) 374/542
Mr.T. (take me higher)
OUTER LIMITS
Mobo*Moga
in my eyes

IIDX07:
jelly kiss
THE CUBE
LOVE IS DREAMINESS
M-02stp.ver 1.01
fly through the night

IIDX08:
GENOM SCREAMS
SNOW
BAD BOY BASS! (dj Remo-con MIX)
THE SHINING POLARIS
Voltage (feat. Hidemaru)

IIDX09:
Attitude
Spin the disc
Presto
MUSIC TO YOUR HEAD
era (nostalmix)

IIDX10:
Summer Vacation (CU mix)
NEMESIS
Holic
V
Colors (radio edit)

will update with notecounts later as I play (to make sure everything's accurate)


edit: I was the one L7 now has 221 notes instead of however many it used to have. (about 50 less)

Posted by: Team Ragnarok Mar 31 2006, 05:08 AM

QUOTE(blackstar @ Mar 31 2006, 01:32 AM) *
Wouldn't it be easier to send the 5-key portion of BM USA to Retrofuture instead of implementing it here?


No, because Retrofuture is based on the score algorithm from the original Beatmania series (max. 100,000), and doesn't support money scores with a maximum of 200,000.

Removed the edits.

Posted by: sanchny Mar 31 2006, 05:54 AM

QUOTE
Music To Your Head, The Shining Polaris

QUOTE(Remy @ Mar 29 2006, 09:35 PM) *
Before you ask any questions about this, please read http://vjarmy.com/wiki/index.php/VJA:US_Support from top to bottom.

Posted by: Team Ragnarok Mar 31 2006, 06:07 AM

Edits are gone. I forgot about that.

Posted by: blah Mar 31 2006, 06:42 AM

Some DP note counts before going to bed:
Virtual Insanity (3/4/-) - 185/218
You Really Got Me (3/4/-) - 228/321
Toxic (3/4/-) - 260/371
Lift Me Up (3/4/-) - 286/???


I don't know if anyone had these up yet.. so yeah.

Posted by: al2k4 Mar 31 2006, 07:26 AM

Hope this is all the 5KEY info that you need. biggrin.gif

CODE
SONG                        ARTIST                               LVL  GENRE              BPM   NOTECOUNT

20,November(single mix)     DJ nagureo                           5    HOUSE              130   301
321 STARS                   DJ SIMON                             7    TECHNO POP         192   413
Attack the music            DJ FX                                6    HARD TECHNO        140   323
BATTLE BREAKS               DJ TAKAWO                            5    V.R.D.J SKILLS     112   298
Celebration                 WaveGroup/DJ TK-ST                   4    SOUL MIX           121   298

Do you love me?             reo-nagumo                           2    BALLAD             100   133
e-motion                    e.o.s                                2    RAVE               145    96 (VJA is correct)
First Day                   Timo Maas                            2    ELECTRONICA        125   284
Funkytown                   Lipps Inc.                           2    80'S REVIVAL       122   278
GENOM SCREAMS               L.E.D.                               7    PSYCHEDELIC TRANCE 150   582 (VJA says 403)

HUNTING FOR YOU             Togo project feat.Megu&Scotty D.     3    R&B                105   216
jam jam reggae              jam master'73                        1    REGGAE              90    60 (VJA is correct)
La Bossanova de Fabienne    staccato two-F                       3    BOSSA GROOVE       143   213
Lift Me Up                  Moby                                 3    ELECTRONICA        121   258
LOVE SO GROOVY              LOVEMINTS                            2    SOUL               141   169

Manmachine plays Jazz~M102~ Mikio Endo                           6    JAZZ ELECTRO       114   377
METAL GEAR SOLID Main Theme ESPACIO BROTHERS                     4    BIGBEAT MIX        140   170
OVERBLAST!!                 L.E.D.                               1    WARP HOUSE         147    99
PARANOiA MAX ~DIRTY MIX~    190                                  3    JUNGLE             190   144 (VJA says 150)
s.d.z.                      DJ mazinger featuring Muhammad       3    HIP HOP            100   168

SKA a go go                 THE BALD HEADS                       7    SKA                160   356
Stop Violence!              Herbie Hammock & His Band            3    FUNKY JAZZ GROOVE  113   105
The Way You Move            Paul Grogan Featuring Natalie Martin 3    DANCE              128   250
Toxic                       WaveGroup/Shoichiro Hirata           3    GARAGE MIX         143   371
tribe groove                nite system                          6    WORLD GROOVE       126   275

u gotta groove              DJ nagureo                           1    HIP HOP            100    79 (VJA says 80)
Virtual Insanity            WaveGroup/DJ TK-ST                   3    R&B MIX            100   209
You Really Got Me           WaveGroup/Shoichiro Hirata           4    BREAKBEATS MIX     138   321

Posted by: Remy Mar 31 2006, 08:23 AM

QUOTE(blackstar @ Mar 31 2006, 01:32 AM) *
Wouldn't it be easier to send the 5-key portion of BM USA to Retrofuture instead of implementing it here?


The basic implementation wasn't actually that bad. It's going to be tougher to implement into View User/DJ Battle, but that's about it.

Posted by: ParaParaKing Mar 31 2006, 09:00 AM


g.m.d. NORMAL has 159 notes and ANOTHER has 184 notes.
Also I was the One NORMAL has 221 notes

Posted by: Taren Mar 31 2006, 09:22 AM

Yeah, Retrofuture uses the old 100K scoring method, and doesn't take grades or Just Greats into account AT ALL.

IIDX 05 Heavy has 3159 notes

Posted by: lefty Mar 31 2006, 03:03 PM

Just out of curiosity, Do the 7key US exclusive songs not have any another charts? Or is there just no implementation yet?

Posted by: Team Ragnarok Mar 31 2006, 03:35 PM

QUOTE(lefty @ Mar 31 2006, 03:03 PM) *
Just out of curiosity, Do the 7key US exclusive songs not have any another charts? Or is there just no implementation yet?


This was already mentioned in the other thread, but no, they don't have anothers.

Posted by: Monster-in-a-box! Mar 31 2006, 03:42 PM

Which is totally ridiculous. Virtual Insanity in RED CS please...

Also, is 5 key going to show up in the all styles view, or just BMUS? I think it'd look better the second way...

Posted by: Kirby Kirby Kirby Mar 31 2006, 04:13 PM

QUOTE(Monster-in-a-box! @ Mar 31 2006, 03:42 PM) *
Also, is 5 key going to show up in the all styles view, or just BMUS? I think it'd look better the second way...


It's crossed out on the other styles.

Posted by: K0LD Mar 31 2006, 04:15 PM

Don't know if anyone else has noticed, but e-motion Normal's timing has been fixed. Hyper is still way early.

Posted by: Jadin Mar 31 2006, 04:26 PM

e-motion L7 was always on. come on guys...

Posted by: Monster-in-a-box! Mar 31 2006, 05:28 PM

QUOTE(Kirby Kirby Kirby @ Mar 31 2006, 04:13 PM) *
It's crossed out on the other styles.


Er...I'm so bad at wording everything I say...what I meant was will 5-key show up regularly on the view DJ page thingy. It would look kinda dumb, what with there only being like 20 5 key songs, and several hundreds for the rest. That's just my opinion though.

Posted by: Remy Mar 31 2006, 06:49 PM

QUOTE(Monster-in-a-box! @ Mar 31 2006, 05:28 PM) *
Er...I'm so bad at wording everything I say...what I meant was will 5-key show up regularly on the view DJ page thingy. It would look kinda dumb, what with there only being like 20 5 key songs, and several hundreds for the rest. That's just my opinion though.


It will show up there eventually. The 450 songs without 5-key data will just have nothing in that column.

Posted by: Monster-in-a-box! Mar 31 2006, 07:35 PM

Ah. Is it going to be throw in at the end after 14k, or is it going to be the first one on the left? I just think it would look off if 5 key was the first mode listed, what with it's lack of prominence. I'm not trying to be picky, so if you disagree just ignore me or something. I'm not looking to make anyone angry...

Posted by: Hsanrb Mar 31 2006, 09:42 PM

Not sure if anyones noticed this, but I just tried to sumbit a score for e-motion Another 7 and there is an extra note added. I got a very good 82/19/92/0/3 (little sarcasam there), but there is apparently an additional note somewhere in the song (max ex on US is 386 and the one thats being recorded goes to 384) I'm gonna post the rest of my horrible another scores and see if any other problems arise.

Posted by: Smbu Mar 31 2006, 10:09 PM

Is there any way to remove the 5key songs from showing up in our profile? I never play 5key(except when I needed to unlock the [A]'s on BM US), and I don't ever want to enter in any 5key scores. The missing 5key scores do screw up my overall grade though. dry.gif

oh and also when I check out my 4th/5th/7th/8th/10th style score pages I get stuff like this showing up:
"Warning: Division by zero in /chroot/home/remy/public_html/iidx/viewuser.php on line 432"
"Warning: Division by zero in /chroot/home/remy/public_html/iidx/viewuser.php on line 489"

where it add up the grade totals on the right.

Posted by: sanchny Apr 2 2006, 01:07 PM

10key diffs and notecounts:

1 Jam Jam Reggae 76
1 Overblast 285
1 u gotta groove 93
2 Do You Love Me 229
2 emotion 124
2 First Day 373
2 Funkytown 278
2 Love So Groovy 227
3 Hunting For You 338
3 La Bossanova de Fabienne 341
3 Lift Me Up 290
3 Paranoia dirty mix 200
3 sdz 175
3 Stop Violence 173
3 The Way You Move 258
3 Toxic 371
3 Virtual Insanity 209
4 20 Nov radio edit 352
4 Celebration 390
4 MGS theme 173
4 You Really Got Me 321
5 Battle Breaks 299
6 Attack the music 378
6 Manmachine plays jazz 492
6 tribe groove 259
7 321 stars 436
7 genom screams 745
7 ska a go go 507

Posted by: Monster-in-a-box! Apr 2 2006, 05:19 PM

How about you put 10 key after 14 [A]? That'd look better than having a big white line downt he majority of the middle of the page...

Posted by: Kirby Kirby Kirby Apr 2 2006, 05:49 PM

Just a note, I was headed to add my score for g.m.d. L7 on BMUS and it won't let me submit it as it has a lower sum of notes than the one required. Here's what I got on the records screen:

43 - 40 - 59 - 4 - 20 (P/G/Go/B/Po)

A picture can be uploaded upon request.

Posted by: Krazy Apr 2 2006, 08:52 PM

Not sure if this is intentional or even known, but 5K scores aren't added to the sig graphic nor are the DJ Points from them added to the single DJ Points ranking, though they are added on the combined DJ Points ranking.

Posted by: Monster-in-a-box! Apr 2 2006, 09:25 PM

I wouldn't mind if they stayed off the graphic, what with this being a IIDX site, but if they aren't going to be here they shouldn't be in the view user graph thingy either...

Posted by: lefty Apr 2 2006, 09:54 PM

QUOTE(Monster-in-a-box! @ Apr 2 2006, 09:25 PM) *
I wouldn't mind if they stayed off the graphic, what with this being a IIDX site, but if they aren't going to be here they shouldn't be in the view user graph thingy either...


I don't mind either way if they don't get put on the sig graphic, but I agree, that If they aren't going to be on the sig, they shouldn't be counted in the totals.

Posted by: Catastrophe Apr 2 2006, 10:49 PM

I think they should count in both places. Remy might've just overlooked or not got around to implementing 5K in either place yet. I don't think he'd intentionally count them and not show them.

Just a thought. Let's say, hypothetically, that 2nd style has 5-normal, 5-another, 10-normal, and 10-another. That might make for an ugly layout on the view user page. :\ But that's a long way off.

I think the column order should go 7N 7H 7A 14N 14H 14A 5N 10N. Or we could take a cue from the periodic table. The 5K songs could be the lanthanides and the 10K songs could be like actinides! That way the table looks better. =D

Posted by: Remy Apr 3 2006, 07:44 AM

It's an oversight. They'll be there eventually.

Look, I know you guys are all OH MY GOD 5-KEY ISN'T A LEGITIMATE WAY TO BE PLAYING ON THIS SITE. I understand that concern.

It's a legitimate difficulty setting. The songs that are on both 5 and 7 in US tend to have more notes on 5 than they do on L7 (never mind Beginner).

I'm sure there are people who wish I had never put L7 on the site - I mean, they're just ways to whore out more AAAs! No one really plays IIDX on L7 anyhow, right?

...there's a delicate balance between appealing to the hardcore and appealing to the new players. The 5-key thing is a concession for new players. The absolute refusal not to program the US grading system (should we ever figure it out) and the amount of programming I did to remove 5-key from viewuser (and add the "all japanese styles" thing) was a concession to the hardcore.

Posted by: Axem Rangers Apr 3 2006, 11:18 AM

QUOTE(Remy @ Apr 3 2006, 08:44 AM) *
I'm sure there are people who wish I had never put L7 on the site - I mean, they're just ways to whore out more AAAs! No one really plays IIDX on L7 anyhow, right?

...there's a delicate balance between appealing to the hardcore and appealing to the new players. The 5-key thing is a concession for new players. The absolute refusal not to program the US grading system (should we ever figure it out) and the amount of programming I did to remove 5-key from viewuser (and add the "all japanese styles" thing) was a concession to the hardcore.

<3
Remy is win for logic and sanity.

Posted by: Taren Apr 3 2006, 01:28 PM

When I get around to it, Total Recall will also have R5K and R10K support, and it will count towards totals and the sig and stuff... I'm gettin' there. I'm pretty sure 5key is already being exported to XML, as my local program was FLIPPING OUT about this weird unsupported mode called "5".

Posted by: Monster-in-a-box! Apr 3 2006, 02:50 PM

I'm not going to argue with Remy. It's his site, and he can do whatever he wants with it. I just wish he was a little more understanding. 5-key is beatmania, while 7-key is IIDX. They're not the same game...please don't ban me.

Posted by: Remy Apr 3 2006, 03:04 PM

QUOTE(Monster-in-a-box! @ Apr 3 2006, 03:50 PM) *
I'm not going to argue with Remy. It's his site, and he can do whatever he wants with it. I just wish he was a little more understanding. 5-key is beatmania, while 7-key is IIDX. They're not the same game...please don't ban me.


Okay, first off: argue with me all you like. I have yet to ban anyone from the site for arguing with me. Nor do I ever intend to.

I am aware that 5-key is beatmania, and 7-key is IIDX. They are not the same "game", it's true - but at the same time, here we have this DVD where they are on the same "game". This is a first for the community. This is hard to reconcile.

Here, let me lay it out this way - here's what's new, functionality wise, on Beatmania US that isn't in any of the JP versions:

- 5-key
- New grading system
- Beginner difficulty charts integrated into the main game mode for IIDX
- Replay Mode
- Practice Mode

I've already committed to not supporting #2 and #3. #4 and #5 aren't supportable in a site such as this.

Why is it you don't want the 5-key charts here? Is it just because you think they're really easy and will never play them? Is it because it makes View User look a little more cluttered? Is it just "this is explicitly a IIDX score site and this is not explicitly IIDX so it shouldn't be here"?

Convince me. Anyone out there who feels strongly either way, seriously, now is the time to throw in your opinion. Trust me, if I get a lot of compelling arguments to get rid of it, I'll axe it. But if it's merely because *you* don't want to play 5-key, I need to remind you that there are over 2000 registered users - close to half of which are active - and everyone has different needs. Some just need 7-key, some need doubles, some need expert courses, and some would probably really like 5-key.

Posted by: Monster-in-a-box! Apr 3 2006, 03:24 PM

Meh. I don't know. On one hand it kinda screws up my AAA count. On the other hand, if you look at it like that, so does an e-motion score. If it were up to me, the scores would show up on the site, but not count toward your graph, kind of like with 5-line in Pop'n.

Just to reiterate, I'm not trying to argue. I kind of suck at wording things...I guess everything I say sounds like I'm trying to provoke someone into arguing about something, and the fact that I complain a lot doesn't help my case any. The sarcasm in you last post just bugged me a bit, because [L7] is part of IIDX, while 5 key isn't (and I know the JPN styles techinically have 5-key, but you know that doesn't count, what with it being 7key-2, and having no records.). That's really all I meant when I said you should be more understanding.

And being a GameFAQs user, I can't help but be a little afraid to disagree with an admin. You know how they are on that site...at least, you probably do.

I'm not trying to make things unneccesarily difficult on you, though that's probably what I'm doing. If so, I apologize. I'll do my best to stop whining about this subject...for real this time.

Posted by: Remy Apr 3 2006, 03:41 PM

I apologize about the bit of snark earlier, it was uncalled for. I get a little jumpy when people want me to shelve things that may appeal to newer players. I just wish that people would remember that not everyone on this site is a tatsujin or even a catsujin. I mean, hell, my fingers are screwing up my AAA count pretty badly. smile.gif

Anyhow:

QUOTE(Monster-in-a-box! @ Apr 3 2006, 04:24 PM) *
If it were up to me, the scores would show up on the site, but not count toward your graph, kind of like with 5-line in Pop'n.


This sounds reasonable to me, given the way PNN works. Anyone have an issue with this?

Posted by: Team Ragnarok Apr 3 2006, 03:42 PM

QUOTE(Remy @ Apr 3 2006, 04:41 PM) *
This sounds reasonable to me, given the way PNN works. Anyone have an issue with this?


That actually sounds like a great idea. I'd be all for it.

Posted by: blah Apr 3 2006, 04:19 PM

I'm honestly more worried about how cluttered view user is getting than sig images and dj points. The fact is that if you have 14k display on your view user, it's already a lot to take in. It might be easier on the eyes to have 5k/10k display below 7k/14k rather than having it mixed in. It would probably also help keep all the neat freaks out there a little more sane. smile.gif

Posted by: MazriM TaiM Apr 3 2006, 05:04 PM

How about a seperate viewuser page for "beatmania" songs? Seperates the 5/10k scores from the rest of them, especially if you have 7 and 14k already on there.

Posted by: Krazy Apr 3 2006, 05:35 PM

QUOTE(Catastrophe @ Apr 2 2006, 11:49 PM) *
Or we could take a cue from the periodic table. The 5K songs could be the lanthanides and the 10K songs could be like actinides! That way the table looks better. =D


QUOTE(Monster-in-a-box! @ Apr 2 2006, 11:49 PM) *
If it were up to me, the scores would show up on the site, but not count toward your graph, kind of like with 5-line in Pop'n.


I like these two ideas. Only problems I could see would be songs that have both 5K and regular 7K would probably need two seperate entries in the database, though I suppose that probably isn't as big an issue as getting everything integrated and functioning.

Posted by: sanchny Apr 3 2006, 07:04 PM

QUOTE(Remy @ Apr 3 2006, 04:41 PM) *
Anyhow:
QUOTE
If it were up to me, the scores would show up on the site, but not count toward your graph, kind of like with 5-line in Pop'n.

This sounds reasonable to me, given the way PNN works. Anyone have an issue with this?

It's not really comparable to 5 line on Pop'n, where the buttons are cut down almost by half.
Like you said, the songs that are on both 5k and 7k tend to have more notes on 5k than on L7. Who's going to AAA one of those songs on 5k before they AAA it on L7?

Posted by: Monster-in-a-box! Apr 3 2006, 07:21 PM

I guess....but the note count is still in the same general area for every pattern all of those songs have, aside from maybe begginer which I haven't played.

Posted by: Catastrophe Apr 3 2006, 10:36 PM

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/aseitz/table.png tongue.gif

1001: I think 5K does count. I also think that L7 counts. If someone has 25 AAAs, I assume that 23 of them on L7. If I see that someone who has 80 AAAs then I assume that 65 of them are on L7. For 200 AAAs, 150. And so on. I know that the people with 800 AAAs are really serious. It's progression thing and a time commitment thing. If someone can AAA V singles hyper then they should be able to dominate the normal chart first try. So why not do it? Otherwise you've got a zero on your on your scoresheet. Yeah, it takes time. But then RED is going to bring VJA up to 500 songs.

Or look at easy AAAs this way. Happy Sky (AC) has 2066 different charts to conquer, some of them more difficult than others. After subtracting the 29 beginner charts there are 2037 charts remaining that are valid choices for competition. If you're going to discard even more charts because they're too easy then don't discard L7s. Discard everything < 4 stars, right? Or discard everything with less than 500 notes? Both of those suggestions are absurd. It doesn't matter that some charts are easier than others. They all require 8/9s score to AAA.

Posted by: grayfox9996 Apr 3 2006, 10:42 PM

QUOTE(Catastrophe @ Apr 3 2006, 08:36 PM) *
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/aseitz/table.png

I really, really, really, really like this idea. Right now, View User is just getting to have too much stuff as it is - 2 more columns is just beyond comprehension. Plus it's rather strange having a column of nearly nothing, when they could easily be arranged like that (or not so easily...? I don't know about the coding, honestly). It would take just as much vertical space as before, but less horizontal, which is good.

Posted by: Sardius Apr 4 2006, 12:31 AM

5-key should count toward graph AAAs. All previous arguments aside, the mode carries with it its own set of unique challenges that make scorekeeping worthwhile, and if 5K AAAs didn't count, there would be little reason for many players to even bother playing the mode in the first place. Providing an incentive to play a mode that effectively makes up half of a $60 game is more important than the semantics of "IIDX means seven keys ONLY!", I think.

Besides I'd like for my 5K e-motion AAA to count for SOMETHING other than fifteen minutes of lost time. tongue.gif

Posted by: TheWertle Apr 4 2006, 12:56 AM

I think it's a good point that a lot of the 5k songs have really tough timing making them quite challenging enough to AAA. Its not like the addition of 5k means 30 free AAA's or something. And even if it did, everyone has the chance to get them

Posted by: blah Apr 4 2006, 02:24 AM

The additional benefit of setting it up the way that Catastrophe's image describes would be that if there is a US 2nd mix and normal/another were added to 5k, it would cause much less trouble.

Posted by: vincent Apr 4 2006, 09:16 AM

I haven't made up my mind completely yet, but it seems to me that 5k/10k should be something like a user preference.
There is already a user preference which tells if doubles appear in the 'view user' page. I guess it could be the same with 5k/10k.

About including 5k/10k in the AAA count, I think they should be in.
My 3 reasons are :

- AAAs total count grows up so much with every new release, and the new 5k/10k AAAs are little compared to that total
- it cheers up so much the new player to have a AAA, and why should the first AAA be 5.1.1[l7], and not a 5k ? biggrin.gif
- 5k may be a regular way to play IIDX (the game is hard enough), while I don't know any 5-line-only Pop'n players

I'm opposed to a dedicated 5key section at the bottom of the view user page, it repeats all songs and it breaks the design of the big table.

Posted by: Remy Apr 4 2006, 09:49 AM

QUOTE(vincent @ Apr 4 2006, 10:16 AM) *
I haven't made up my mind completely yet, but it seems to me that 5k/10k should be something like a user preference.
There is already a user preference which tells if doubles appear in the 'view user' page. I guess it could be the same with 5k/10k.


The reason doubles is a user preference is because it requires an extra purchase to utilize. 5-key is not prone to this condition.

QUOTE
I'm opposed to a dedicated 5key section at the bottom of the view user page, it repeats all songs and it breaks the design of the big table.


Most of the 5-key songs are not duplicated in the 7-key list. And no matter how this happens, the design of the table is getting broken. :/

Posted by: TheKnightOfNee Apr 4 2006, 11:18 AM

I'm torn on whether or not 5k songs should count towards things. At first, I was thinking along the lines of how 5 line is in Pop'n, but then I realize 5 line is akin to beginner mode in IIDX, not 5k. And after playing Beatmania at Jon's yesterday, and failing Ska a Go Go on my first try (>__>), I'm willing to say this is a legitimate difficulty.

I do like the idea of putting 5k/10k scores at the bottom. The page is getting far too stretched horizontally. A few songs do get repeated, yes, but it would fit a little better. It's not like the page isn't already monstrously tall. And then with 5k, we could always add the option to sort only by 5k in djbattles in the future, along with that sort only by L7/7k/[a] option that still has yet to be implemented.

Posted by: Kirby Kirby Kirby Apr 4 2006, 12:15 PM

I would personally add 5K to the stats seeing as how Ska a Go Go is fucking ridiculous and is harder than some 7K songs.

Posted by: Monster-in-a-box! Apr 4 2006, 03:03 PM

Gah. So many factors. I don't know what to think anymore...

...but Sardius, it only took you 15 minutes to AAA e-motion?! It took me like an hour to NOT AAA it...(the [7] and [5] are the same, right?)

Posted by: Tora-kun Apr 5 2006, 02:32 PM

OK, I know you said you have to implement the changed songs, and I though someone said that The Shining Polaris was only changed on HYPER, IIRC.

The NORMAL chart is new as well, and has almost half of the number of notes as the original NORMAL/LIGHT7 chart.

I'll edit this with the new notecount when I get back.

Posted by: Kirby Kirby Kirby Apr 5 2006, 07:18 PM

Yeah, all of my scores for g.m.d. and I Was The One won't go up due to "incorrect notecount" but it's been doing this for all of my scores on those songs. o_O

Posted by: TheKnightOfNee Apr 5 2006, 07:33 PM

US version notecounts:

gmd (7k looks to be unchanged, at least number-wise. The [a] is the 3rd style [a])
L7 - 159
7k - 176
[a] - 184

I Was The One (again, L7 is different, but 7k is the same)
L7 - 221
7k - 326

Will edit with more as I see differences

Posted by: dj HaQ Apr 5 2006, 07:57 PM

So... expert courses? :x

btw hi again guys =P

Posted by: Tora-kun Apr 6 2006, 03:21 PM

THE SHINING POLARIS
NORMAL - Note Count: 276 (Old Notecount: 485)
HYPER - Note Count: 666 (Old Notecount: 667)

Also, other than note placement, the notecounts for MUSIC TO YOUR HEAD have not changed at all.

Posted by: Monster-in-a-box! Apr 6 2006, 04:03 PM

Oh noes, they made The Shining Polaris EVIL! So..did they just get rid of one note, or did they rearrange some of the 'annoying parts', AND get rid of one note?

Posted by: Tora-kun Apr 6 2006, 11:40 PM

QUOTE(Monster-in-a-box! @ Apr 6 2006, 04:03 PM) *
...did they rearrange some of the 'annoying parts', AND get rid of one note?


Pretty much.

Posted by: Faker13 Apr 7 2006, 03:04 AM

I think 5k and 10k should count because you can play all songs on 5k.
You can choose the mod 5keys when playing normally.
So I don't see why 5 keys should be excluded.
It's just another chart to conquer in my opinion.
It's a chart, just like L7, and it's there for all songs.

I would like to see 5k support eventually for all songs, since you can choose the 5 keys mod.
But that may take a while, and people who will play 5 keys.
It's really not that bad.

Posted by: Songy Apr 7 2006, 04:36 AM

The game doesn't keep records of 5k accomplishments so it makes it hard to backup scores. VJA suggests that you have some way of providing proof for your scores so it rules it out.

Posted by: Tora-kun Apr 7 2006, 08:34 AM

QUOTE(Faker13 @ Apr 7 2006, 03:04 AM) *
It's just another chart to conquer in my opinion.
It's a chart, just like L7, and it's there for all songs.


It's not a created by hand chart though. It's just the 7Key chart (or Light7/7Key/another chart in 10th Style) with two lanes taken out, it's still just a chart created for all 7 keys.

Hence why the game doesn't keep track of records.

Posted by: blackstar Apr 8 2006, 09:38 PM

QUOTE(Tora-kun @ Apr 7 2006, 06:34 AM) *
It's not a created by hand chart though. It's just the 7Key chart (or Light7/7Key/another chart in 10th Style) with two lanes taken out, it's still just a chart created for all 7 keys.

Hence why the game doesn't keep track of records.


97% of the songs in 5key mode don't have 7Key charts.

Posted by: vaderseven Apr 8 2006, 10:49 PM

QUOTE(Tora-kun @ Apr 7 2006, 08:34 AM) *
It's not a created by hand chart though. It's just the 7Key chart (or Light7/7Key/another chart in 10th Style) with two lanes taken out, it's still just a chart created for all 7 keys.

Hence why the game doesn't keep track of records.



this isnt about using the mod 5 key.

Its about playing in Beatmania mode.

Posted by: Smbu Apr 9 2006, 01:02 AM

QUOTE(Monster-in-a-box! @ Apr 6 2006, 04:03 PM) *
Oh noes, they made The Shining Polaris EVIL! So..did they just get rid of one note, or did they rearrange some of the 'annoying parts', AND get rid of one note?

Well, when The Shining Polaris[7] was originally on 4th CS it had 666 notes. When it came out on 5th style it was changed to 667 notes. Stayed that way on 6th style too. I'm not sure where the extra note is though...

EDITED!!!1 tongue.gif

Posted by: XytharDX Apr 9 2006, 02:56 AM

QUOTE(Smbu @ Apr 9 2006, 01:02 AM) *
The Shining Polaris[7] was originally a preview song on 4th CS


*stab*

Come on, I was hoping that at least the regulars here would know better.

Posted by: Kirby Kirby Kirby Apr 9 2006, 07:01 PM

There's a problem for the expert courses though. The preset ones for IR (more specifically those in LIGHT) use songs with a Beginner notechart. Shall we just lose LIGHT course support?

Posted by: Remy Apr 9 2006, 07:12 PM

QUOTE(Kirby Kirby Kirby @ Apr 9 2006, 08:01 PM) *
There's a problem for the expert courses though. The preset ones for IR (more specifically those in LIGHT) use songs with a Beginner notechart. Shall we just lose LIGHT course support?


Why is that a problem?

Just so people don't think I've forgotten, I'm planning on finishing the US support this week.

Posted by: Kirby Kirby Kirby Apr 10 2006, 02:53 PM

QUOTE(Remy @ Apr 9 2006, 08:12 PM) *
Why is that a problem?


Wouldn't Beginner difficulty have to be thrown onto VJA? I thought you weren't going to do that.

Posted by: JDM_Deets Apr 10 2006, 03:07 PM

Expert courses are dependent on notecounts for the entire course, not individual songs.

Posted by: Remy Apr 11 2006, 10:26 AM

Deets has it exactly right.

Now, if I wanted to support *original* course creation using Beginner difficulty, then sure, I'd have to add it. But I don't intend on doing that.

Posted by: Saiyajin Apr 12 2006, 11:55 PM

Love the filter for Japanese styles. I just noticed it (I don't exactly play very much anymore).

Awesome implementation of the American version Remy. Now we just need a filter to filter out the BS songs like Hype the Retard, One more Retard, and Setsuretard.

But seriously, I have a feeling part of the pressure for you making a filter that would ignore the US game was partially my fault, and I do appreciate that.

Posted by: Remy Apr 13 2006, 08:47 AM

There was no one person, it was just general pressure from the community. It's a useful feature for people who have JPS2s and are unable to run US.

Posted by: lefty Apr 13 2006, 11:11 AM

There seems to be a problem with sig graphics updating....

and I mean for more than just 5k... I entered a bunch of L7 Scores yesterday from 8th style, and they're not showing up on my graphic.

Is this due to BMUS implementation?

Posted by: Remy Apr 13 2006, 01:47 PM

I probably broke the sig script while I was adding it; I will check it tonight.

Posted by: Remy Apr 13 2006, 07:09 PM

It's fixed, they're regenerating.

Posted by: Faker13 Apr 14 2006, 08:15 AM

only one i see on L7 still unchanged is g.m.d. dry.gif

oh and should snow[L7] be considered (US) also like the others that should be implemented because the charts different?(even with same # of notes)

Posted by: Kirby Kirby Kirby Apr 14 2006, 09:41 AM

QUOTE(Faker13 @ Apr 14 2006, 09:15 AM) *
only one i see on L7 still unchanged is g.m.d. dry.gif

oh and should snow[L7] be considered (US) also like the others that should be implemented because the charts different?(even with same # of notes)


Do you even read topics? Damn.
http://vjarmy.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2390

Posted by: Spiral Zer0 May 15 2006, 07:13 PM

how long until G.M.D L7 for beatmania US will be available for score input?

Posted by: Kirby Kirby Kirby May 15 2006, 07:29 PM

QUOTE(Spiral Zer0 @ May 15 2006, 08:13 PM) *
how long until G.M.D L7 for beatmania US will be available for score input?


I bet that with that attitude, never.

Posted by: Spiral Zer0 May 16 2006, 08:35 AM

QUOTE(Kirby Kirby Kirby @ May 15 2006, 08:29 PM) *
I bet that with that attitude, never.


umm it's was just a question.

what did I do now?

Posted by: Remy May 16 2006, 08:59 AM

Fixing g.m.d. L7 for BMUS is slightly under finishing basic RED support in terms of priorities. As are 10-key and all other BMUS fixes that are left.

RED shouldn't take much longer to polish off, so hang in there.

Posted by: Spiral Zer0 May 16 2006, 09:21 AM

okay then, thank you very much

Posted by: ParaParaKing May 22 2006, 09:19 AM

edit: nevermind

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)