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> Arcade data, Does it count?
itsgreylolol
post Apr 28 2008, 05:42 PM
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I can understand Schala's HC on Mei, she had a low miss count, she could do it on CS, etc., but should people be submitting scores?

For example:

http://vjarmy.com/iidx/viewsong.php?songid...;highlight=REXY
http://vjarmy.com/iidx/viewsong.php?songid...;highlight=REXY

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/Nig...es333/AAAAA.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/Nig...333/no13aaa.png

Is this acceptablew?


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All numbers not including EMP+PB
[L7] Left to AAA: 3 (Step Into the New World, Fun, Gambol)
[7k] left to A: 1 (Pluto)
11*s left to clear: 9 (waxing and wanding, tripping contact (remix), The Dirty of Loudness, four pieces of heaven, Blocks, Bleeding Luv, Be OK [b])
12*s Cleared: 5
Ds left in IIDX: 4 (Mendes[b], Icarus[b], four pieces of heaven[b], Mei[a])
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rmz
post Apr 30 2008, 08:25 PM
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The original rule was that arcade scores were not allowed because of “better keys“ and different timing, but given that a lot of people do BETTER on CS mixes than on AC, and because some people play somewhat exclusively on AC versions now, I'm inclined to allow them for now. However, being that I'm a scrub, does anybody know of a reason why we shouldn't? I'm looking for opinions/thoughts here since this IS a long-standing rule.

Remy did OK Pop'n AC scores a while back, though, so it's not entirely without precedent.
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over there
post Apr 30 2008, 08:49 PM
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The whole meaning behind my statement behind hacked drives being more legit scores is that the timing is different still (though not by a big amount), it doesn't run perfectly on a lot of computers and lags randomly, changing bpms by small amounts sometimes without warning, and there is going to be controller lag with certain adapters and whatnot.

I agree with rmz here, as long as people aren't getting huge increases just by playing FAKE TIME [a] on a hacked AC drive rather than RED CS.
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Buffalo
post Apr 30 2008, 08:55 PM
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Okay, I realize this would happen sooner or later. Here are my thoughts.

I believe it's okay as long as you don't use mods that are not available to the said CS version (no sudden+ switching on CYO) and the song is available on a 9th+ interface.

I believe something like this is also similar in terms of Pop'n AC score submissions (no using speed mods that are not available in the CS versions its on, etc)

Also, the timing of DJT is pretty much the same as CS timing IMO (Actually, I don't know why this site wouldn't allow AC scores at all considering for the most part, it's harder than CS timing).

If anyone else has any objections to what I have said, feel free to speak out.


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kappaiidx
post Apr 30 2008, 09:02 PM
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This is a hacked version of a game though. And the timing is still different..... I dunno I don't think they should be allowed, but I'm probably going to get flamed for thinking that way!


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Brazoliange
post Apr 30 2008, 09:04 PM
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better timing on old stuff - it's a lot easier to AAA 250 bpm on DJ Troopers than on 5th style haha. same goes for Jive on GOLD as opposed to 4th style or a fair number of other things.

speed mods on things. using 5x sudden+ on old slow shit.

probably a few other things. interface being cleaner I guess.


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Buffalo
post Apr 30 2008, 09:15 PM
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Also, I forgot one thing as well.

The "better keys" argument really doesn't work. By that logic, I shouldn't submit my scores at all because I bought a DJ DAO PE (which is about as arcade accurate as you can get).

Sanwas don't make the game super easy, despite what other people say. Look at turbo jjang's controller modding guide and you'll see that the KOC keys can be as clicky and responsive as the arcade controllers.


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chotto kiitena
post Apr 30 2008, 09:28 PM
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Those links to the scores are broken.

Let's not kid around here, those are HDD scores from playing on the computer. I don't know if this is fundamentally different to the arcade or what, but it would be a combination of game and controller that isn't usually possible (usually it's either KOC + CS version or arcade controls + AC version).

Objectively it's probably not a huge deal to me but I think other people are going to object to it because the site's been for CS scores only for so long. A hard clear is one thing, an actual score is another.

rmz if we still need to tiptoe around the HDD issue here then feel free to not approve this post. I just felt like we might be misrepresenting the issue by pretending these scores are from an arcade machine when they're not.


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chotto kiitena
post Apr 30 2008, 09:30 PM
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Oh, and while Pop'n AC scores are provisionally allowed, I would bet that Adventure HDD scores would be viewed a little differently. Same kind of thing really.

It's really the kind of thing we need to ask Remy about probably. His site, his database, so he should say what we can and can't put in it.


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Jadin
post Apr 30 2008, 10:06 PM
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we shouldn't allow it at all...

or else I will go through 3rd-8th style songs and easily raise them due to transparent laneflares among other things like sudden+ and changing hi-speed and toggling sudden+ mid-song... which would give me an unfair advantage to people who can't reliably play lagless AC. :>


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Jadin
post Apr 30 2008, 10:07 PM
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also, schala didn't mark her mei as HC because she didn't do it on CS


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rmz
post Apr 30 2008, 10:46 PM
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QUOTE(Jadin @ Apr 30 2008, 08:06 PM) *
or else I will go through 3rd-8th style songs and easily raise them due to transparent laneflares among other things like sudden+ and changing hi-speed and toggling sudden+ mid-song... which would give me an unfair advantage to people who can't reliably play lagless AC. :>

That is something I didn't think about. Good point.
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chotto kiitena
post Apr 30 2008, 10:48 PM
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QUOTE(Jadin @ Apr 30 2008, 10:07 PM) *
also, schala didn't mark her mei as HC because she didn't do it on CS


Oh ok. I assumed she had done so from Grey's post.


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jiano
post May 1 2008, 12:31 AM
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Case 1:
You play a song with same mods/interface as CS. You're not going to beat your CS score. (Disclaimer: Jadin may have done a couple, but he's Jadin. I've yet to beat a 9th+ CS score on HDD) SO why bother? Convenience? CS versions have no problems, don't be lazy! IIDX isn't a game for LAZY people >:O

Case 2:
You RAPE a song that's not on 9th+ CS just from interface alone. I beat my best 8th CS score on G2 [A] in about... 2 tries. And I beat it by 2-3% EX.

Not Halfway of Promise though! Why? TT has screwed up input on HDD. Compare 9th CS CYO [A] to HDD CYO [A]. This is another reason no one shouldn't bother, you're just making the game harder for yourself since it's not really possible to get consistent JGs on scratches on HDD until Tau tries to fix it later or something.



Clears would probably be fine, since interface/mods won't make a clearing/failing difference on something like G2 [A]. I still prefer to do it do it on the respective platform though. And also not copy paste scores. Whine whine whine AUDITY/ISSAC/CSB 5.1.1. dupes whine bawwww etc. (On the subject of that, I know many hate JonnyD, but there's no reason to single him out and blame his e-motion dupe and not blame AUDITY/ISSAC/CSB 5.1.1. dupes)
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itsgreylolol
post May 1 2008, 02:33 AM
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I had assumed she had done so as well, that's my own fault for assuming, and she may flame me accordingly D:

I 100% agree with Jadin's post, and personally think it should be a no-no. I respect the skill it takes to get those kind of scores, God knows I can't even come close, but I'm of the opinion that if you can do it once, yes, you can do it again. I know, the random will be different/harder/less HAT, whatever, but that's a whole other argument.


--------------------
All numbers not including EMP+PB
[L7] Left to AAA: 3 (Step Into the New World, Fun, Gambol)
[7k] left to A: 1 (Pluto)
11*s left to clear: 9 (waxing and wanding, tripping contact (remix), The Dirty of Loudness, four pieces of heaven, Blocks, Bleeding Luv, Be OK [b])
12*s Cleared: 5
Ds left in IIDX: 4 (Mendes[b], Icarus[b], four pieces of heaven[b], Mei[a])
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Catastrophe
post May 1 2008, 03:07 AM
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This site should be PS2 only. Not because it should be that way, but because it should stay that way. Arcade scores were originally banned on VJA because arcade machines were so rare that any possible advantage that you might get from playing on them would be unfair. (If you think IIDX machines are rare now, there were probably fewer than 10 back then.) There was also the issue of unverifyability if you didn't snap every single score.

Nowadays, AC is very likely an advantage. The TV is nice, the keys are probably nice, and you can play the old songs in a new interface. But this site has been console only for so long that I don't want to muddle the DB.

But I was just talking about allowing AC scores. Allowing emulated scores is a bad a idea and should never be allowed. Look up the thread where we were talking about making a Happy Sky 1.1 where someone would take every song from Happy Sky CS and transplant them onto a hacked DD CS. The timing changes slightly, and much for the better. But different reasons it was decided to be unallowable. If you can't remember why, read that thread. (It's 4am and I have to sleep. Someone else look it up.)


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Brazoliange
post May 1 2008, 02:56 PM
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additionally, with hdd, you can adjust the timing to fit perfectly for you across all songs from all versions. if 9th timing feels early for you, or RED timing feels late, you can just adjust it via hdd to have perfect timing across all versions. this puts anyone that doesn't/isn't able to play hdd at a disadvantage.


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rmz
post May 1 2008, 05:43 PM
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Okay, those are some very good reasons and I would consider that a consensus. The scores in question will be privated, and in the future if you see any AC scores on the site, feel free to Blame them as you would any other score, and they will be dealt with in the usual way.
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