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> AA to AAA
Hideki
post Jun 25 2008, 11:49 AM
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So I'm a very mediocre IIDX player. I'm not trying to win the topranker or anything, I just play a lot of rhythm/music games because I think they are fun. However, I've been rather frustrated, like everyone might have veen at one point. With IIDX, I can't seem to nail AAA's very often. Even on simple songs. There are a handful that I can AAA, sure, but it's disappointing that I get AA's on many songs when I know I'm capable of AAAing stuff. Is there any advice you can give me for stepping up to this level? I haven't looked at it like DDR, where, imo, going from AA->AAA is a lot more difficult...

I play on 2P side and only play 7th and 8th(a friend of mine has 11 and 13 and I can borrow those again). Also, I don't use very fast speed mods, usually 2. Before my IIDX setup was different, a lot farther from the TV so I had to tone down my speed mods now that I've gotten a new setup going. Not sure if it contributes to my PA(or great attack) skills, but hope it helps.


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Toph
post Jun 25 2008, 11:59 AM
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For me, I never worried about AAAing. I tried to clear every song first, so I got very dextrous before I learned to time the game well. For me this worked a lot better - it's much easier to AAA a song when you can practically full combo it.

But if you really insist, there's no advice anyone can give that will help you with your timing other than just practice. Focus on getting as many just greats as possible - make it a standard that you are trying to even avoid regular greats.

Also, the "golden ratio" of IIDX judgment is 4 to 1, meaning 4 JGs for every great. Goods/misses count for 2 greats because when you get a good or a miss you're essentially missing out on 2 EX points (as oppposed to 1 EX point when you get a regular great). If you can get 4 times as many JGs as greats, you're usually set.

So my personal advice is not to worry about timing and try to beat as many songs as possible. For me, this was a lot more fun than playing the same song over and over, trying to improve my score, because I felt a lot more satisfaction by clearing a difficult song than from AAAing an easy one.


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over there
post Jun 25 2008, 12:00 PM
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If you're not using towel/sudden+ yet, use higher speeds. HS2 probably won't cut it for anything below 200 BPM on 7th and 8th, unless your most difficult song cleared is a 5 or a 6. Even if you are using it, I'd suggest using higher speeds anyways, as it helps with reading annoyingly large BPM changes like op. 31 and FAXX on GOLD.

Other than that, listen to your fingers while you play and listen to the distance between keypresses. If you're not pressing them at even rates you're probably not going to AAA the song. Other people probably have other suggestions, but those are my top two.
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sir nabsalot
post Jun 25 2008, 12:08 PM
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I've been struggling alot with timing myself, and my approach so far has been to go back to easy L7 songs and patiently patiently play them over and over, watching those little rectangle notes cross that red line again and again. Once you can consistently AAA 1* songs like Attack the Music, Beginning of Life, 5.1.1, etc., then you've got a good foundation you can build upon with harder (and more interesting) songs. I'm no expert myself; this is just where I'm at so far, and I'm still unclear on how the skill that you develop on the easier stuff "scales" to the higher level stuff.

It can seem like a slog at some points, but try to overcome any boredom, and in time you'll be rewarded for your investment. Yesterday I got only 7 greats on Attack the Music[L7] and I was as proud of myself as when I first beat freaking Go Berzerk[7]. Eventually I want 100% accuracy.

And yeah, DDR's AAA is quite strict, but I guess the timing windows are more forgiving?

EDIT: Like Gabe said, it's useful to listen to the clicking sounds your fingers make as they strike the keys when gauging your rhythm accuracy (maybe it's useful for other things too?). I also find that it's helpful to "listen" to how your fingers feel when it comes to controlling the actual stroke itself. Alot of players appear to tense up when they play, and this can lead to fatigue faster as well as joint/tendon pain for some. If you have a good "feel" for your hands, then you can practice using no more energy than necessary to effectively hit a note, or a sequence of notes. I think this awareness also helps with accuracy too, in addition to stamina.


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stsung
post Jun 26 2008, 03:03 AM
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QUOTE
Other than that, listen to your fingers while you play and listen to the distance between keypresses. If you're not pressing them at even rates you're probably not going to AAA the song. Other people probably have other suggestions, but those are my top two.


I guess this is really important. In my country people who play music games have uneven distance between confirmations of notes. When I started playing music games I was doing the same but after my first European championship in DDR I noticed that this is really important thing in gameplay. After realizing that really keeping the rhythm steady is important I started playing that way and my PA go far more better than it was. This might be the only reason why I'm the best player of music games in this country (I usually comments like you are Japanese that does not count - that I'm the best...)

Anyway in IIDX I can here the correct clicking sometimes but I still can't see or hear when to hit the notes....I guess I need to know that somehow to be able to AAA something right? (the closest score to AAA I got was 16 points sleep.gif *sniff*). I was wondering what is the "thing" that makes you know when to hit the keys? (primarily?)
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I'm not good at IIDX ....just yet

This post has been edited by stsung: Jun 26 2008, 03:05 AM


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therealbong
post Jun 26 2008, 06:28 AM
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QUOTE(Toph @ Jun 25 2008, 11:59 AM) *
For me, I never worried about AAAing. I tried to clear every song first, so I got very dextrous before I learned to time the game well. For me this worked a lot better - it's much easier to AAA a song when you can practically full combo it.

So my personal advice is not to worry about timing and try to beat as many songs as possible.


10000% agreed. This is the way I learned to play and will always play.


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Hideki
post Jun 26 2008, 09:06 AM
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The ratio system was confusing me at first, but yeah, I notice that usually my AAA's numbers tend to be in that realm.

I've never really been a Hi-speed person and even if HS3 is great for me I can't read it this close to the TV. Which I also realize is bad, since at the Arcade I'll be even closer. I'm trying to figure a way around this, as I think it may help.

One way I've been practicing is just playing the 5's and 6's(the easier stuff), the stuff I've AAAed at least once or twice. I practice songs on that level and try to build up but that isn't working too well...yet, that is. I might just continue to do this since it sounds more fun.

For what Toph suggested...I'm mulling over whether I want to go that route, mostly because I like playing songs that are fun(in my viewpoint, that is) rather than playing songs that require a whole lot of effort to just barley pass them. That's just my mindset as a Bemani player. : |


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therealbong
post Jun 26 2008, 09:55 AM
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QUOTE(Hideki @ Jun 26 2008, 09:06 AM) *
For what Toph suggested...I'm mulling over whether I want to go that route, mostly because I like playing songs that are fun(in my viewpoint, that is) rather than playing songs that require a whole lot of effort to just barley pass them. That's just my mindset as a Bemani player. : |


I can see what you think but its not really that case at all I personally find.

From what I can tell, the way you're looking at it is kinda like passing new stuff at DDR. You're exausted, you're nearing the end, you try your best, and with that last oompf you pass a song you haven't passed before all sweaty and tired out.

To me its not like that at all. Each harder song is like a puzzle, a way of figuring out how to move your fingers, a way of figuring out new ways to move your fingers. Its not tiring or anything, either in the mind or body. Gradually you come to points where its like "wow...I didn't know I could do that" as you soon realize you're doing things you've never done, or sometimes even thought of before, which makes it fun all over again, cause now you can play those songs you were struggling on, and see exactly how you've done it.

It was like that for me until honestly....I realized what a 12 was. Before, I had no concept of what was a 12, what was an 11, what was a 10, what was an easy 10/11/12 etc. I just kept on playing, until one day I wanted to see the new ranking system (10th style had been out for a few months, I had only gotten my ps2+controller 3 months before 10th was released, although I could play at the most once a month at a friends place). I had realized that so many things I had passed were actually ranked 12's aka the hardest difficulty, and it just mind boggled me. Actually, my goal for when 10th CS came out, was to have everything in 9th passed which I was easily able to do (after many...MANY tries at moon_child). As for the time when I checked, the only song I hadn't cleared at that point was OML lol.


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Zeroblade
post Jun 26 2008, 09:57 AM
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Well, the idea is just to keep playing whatever you feel like playing, and eventually you'll get better.

Also, random and sudden+/towel.
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Catastrophe
post Jun 29 2008, 03:23 AM
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Here's how I did it. I'm going to pretend I'm the first replay when giving this advice. If I repeat something that's already been said, it's for emphasis. smile.gif

#1 Take yourself down a few levels. If you're clearing 7s, you're probably AAAing 3s or 4s. You can only AAA something that you're 100% comfortable with.

#2 Learn what being comfortable feels like. This is why you take yourself down a level. For me, hard clearing Vanessa 7H and trying to perfect combo a random 6 are two different mindsets. For the former, my hands are tense like a button mashing game in Mario Party and my veins are popping out of my forehead. But for the latter I'm just calm and kind of hitting the notes without focusing on the screen. I kind of stare through the TV and get nothing but greats. (It'd be nice if I could play Vanessa calmly, but I'd get 350 misses if I tried.)

#3 Comfortable means purple. Toph is right - 4:1 is your goal. But, 4:1 won't really cut it. When I AAA stuff I'm getting 6:1 or 10:1 on the easy sections. That's the trick. Because even on "easy AAAs" like Love Love Shine or Love Me Do, there are bitchy measures. You're probably going to get 1:1 at those times. If you're going 4:1 the whole song, and 1:1 for just 3 seconds, you're going to end up 20 or 50 points short every time. Nothing in the game has a uniform difficulty. You need to budget your 'losses' so that you're 7:1 here and 2:1 there, and it all works out. I wish I had it on tape, but I sightread AAA+FC Mendes on light. I'm pretty sure I started off 100/10/0/0/0 and then went 4:1 for the rest of the song. But rocking the beginning gave me enough of a buffer later when I needed it.


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sir nabsalot
post Jun 29 2008, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE(Catastrophe @ Jun 29 2008, 02:23 AM) *
#1 Take yourself down a few levels. If you're clearing 7s, you're probably AAAing 3s or 4s. You can only AAA something that you're 100% comfortable with.

Prescient. This is exactly where I'm at right now. Good god, does it take a while to achieve this level of comfort, especially on random.


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Fake-ass John Tr...
post Jul 16 2008, 03:23 AM
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QUOTE(Toph @ Jun 25 2008, 09:59 AM) *
For me, I never worried about AAAing. I tried to clear every song first, so I got very dextrous before I learned to time the game well. For me this worked a lot better - it's much easier to AAA a song when you can practically full combo it.


This is exactly what i've been doing. For the songs I can clear, my timing would normally be expected to be a bit better than it is, but i'm just working on clearing everything right now and being satisfied with a B or A clear on something rather than throwing a chair at my TV because i'm borderline AA/AAA on a song.

If you're doing mid level songs (7s-9s) then take a break, and just work on L7/[n]. What I try to do when im frustrated is just play through lower level songs once, especially songs I haven't played in a while, and the scores would be much higher than they were. For me it gives a bit of a confidence boost to AAA songs in that range and may help with some basic rhythms or patterns that occur at much faster speeds on higher levels, so that when you get there, you can time them or get through them at least fairly easily.

After a little bit of this, you'll find yourself AAAing the majority of L7/[n] charts and then you'll gradually start AAAing more and more 7k/[h] charts and eventually [a] charts as well.
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Buffalo
post Jul 16 2008, 03:29 AM
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Just hit keys and have at it.


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kevin energy
post Jul 16 2008, 12:09 PM
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QUOTE(Velius @ Jul 16 2008, 02:29 AM) *
Just slap keys and jam at it.



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Toph
post Jul 17 2008, 12:02 AM
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Mafia Boss
post Jul 28 2008, 07:18 PM
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QUOTE(Catastrophe @ Jun 29 2008, 01:23 AM) *
#3 Comfortable means purple. Toph is right - 4:1 is your goal. But, 4:1 won't really cut it. When I AAA stuff I'm getting 6:1 or 10:1 on the easy sections. That's the trick. Because even on "easy AAAs" like Love Love Shine or Love Me Do, there are bitchy measures. You're probably going to get 1:1 at those times. If you're going 4:1 the whole song, and 1:1 for just 3 seconds, you're going to end up 20 or 50 points short every time. Nothing in the game has a uniform difficulty. You need to budget your 'losses' so that you're 7:1 here and 2:1 there, and it all works out. I wish I had it on tape, but I sightread AAA+FC Mendes on light. I'm pretty sure I started off 100/10/0/0/0 and then went 4:1 for the rest of the song. But rocking the beginning gave me enough of a buffer later when I needed it.

This is very, very true.
You can enable the PACEMAKER feature to visualize this concept, also. I tend to put the +/- value off on the edge, so I don't have the number staring me in the face the whole time (pressure!) but I can see the white or red. You will probably notice that you're in the white for quite some time and then, whoops, a few mistakes, and you're in the red. You need to build up a big enough buffer so that a mistake here or there won't make the difference between success and failure.
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chotto kiitena
post Jul 28 2008, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE(Toph @ Jul 17 2008, 12:02 AM) *
VgameT has been appointed Honorary Hawaiian by the council.


does he have to renounce his citizenship for it


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stsung
post Jul 29 2008, 05:10 AM
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well, I'm not really accurate person or anything but I managed to get 10 AAAs (even though vj army says 9?) - I played only gold and now I need a break from playing....
my findings...

well, I read about the 4:1 ratio and this is mainly what I get in the end my ratio is usually about 4.12 : 1 so I'm really close to the AAA +0. but I learned fast enough that getting mane flashing greats at certain parts is what compensates for parts where there is not so many notes. (I usually mess up with not too many notes). with this in mind I ended up with actually getting AAAs on first try. (which was blinking on the other side of the screen, cool)

pacemaker helps me keep my concentration when I want to get flashing greats. without it I play just for fun (even though I tried Honey Punch that way and got AAA +13 - my best AAA result )

also I found out that I really need the conception of knowing when I hit a just great and when I would get a great. without this my results are somewhere between A and AA. at certain songs (eurobeat, j-hardcore etc) I can distinguish the difference between those two (and finally I can distinguish the good/greats difference). (you know when I first played IIDX I was getting like FCs with 10 greats). anyway this thing is really important to me, without it I can't get a good result.

being steady and listening to the keypresses is what helped me a lot. (as I don't hear the rhythm or anything else in the sound track....nor I don't really have memory for that - except if I play it on the piano and see the sheet music for it. those songs I'm good at for example Turkish March. I AAed this the first time I played it and for the rest of songs I was getting Cs and sometimes Bs)

anyway I still think that AAAs should come to me not me to them^_~ (if you know what I mean with that)
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EDIT: I think in order to get AAAs I still need to learn how to get greats when there is not so many notes around or when I don't actually see some kind of a pattern in

This post has been edited by stsung: Jul 29 2008, 05:12 AM


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DDRaHolic
post Aug 21 2008, 01:14 PM
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QUOTE(stsung @ Jul 29 2008, 05:10 AM) *
anyway I still think that AAAs should come to me not me to them^_~ (if you know what I mean with that)
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EDIT: I think in order to get AAAs I still need to learn how to get greats when there is not so many notes around or when I don't actually see some kind of a pattern in


I feel like this is important. I completely agree with Bong and Toph here, and I didn't before, but after playing IIDX for years and years, I can say that if I would have started with that mentality, I might be at a higher level now than I am, with a lot more room for improvement.

I started trying to time well because at the time I was trying to PA better in DDR, and finger stamina just didn't seem to be very important to me. Now that I'm on the verge of many 11s, I wish I would have been focused on stamina back then because here's the thing: While I can AAA plenty of songs at Level 8 and downward, I still can't move my fingers fast enough to get anything but goods on many 10s and 11s.

And yes, I am much worse at fast songs than slow songs, which is I'm sure due to my low finger stamina. So, that's why if you look at my AAA count and think it's high, you'll notice it's all slow songs and easy songs, and lots of people who are "worse" at timing than me on easier songs have much better songs that they time better than me at the higher difficulty levels.

So, take it from a veteran, go with dexterity first!


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SixSilverStrings
post Aug 23 2008, 05:08 AM
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I'm actually starting to wane off of trying to get really good AAAs on lower level songs and am currently focusing on trying to clear as many hard songs as I can. I'm also starting to use random all the time since I rarely use it.

I think this'll be a better course to go after hearing Toph, therealbong, and Schala give that same advice :]


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