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> ASC comparison THE THREADING
Oogami
post Jul 7 2007, 10:46 AM
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I didn't put this in my other thread because I feel it's different enough in scope to warrant a new one.

So, for those who didn't read my DJ HOOD BROKE MY WIFE CONTROLLER thread, here's my conundrum in a nutshell: the circuitboard attached to the port in the key console that plugs into the ASC in the 2P configuration seems to have died. There is absolutely no way, with my lack of electronic and circuitry expertise, that I could perform a swap myself, if even such a swap is possible. So I have two options:

- GET IT FIXED: I suppose I could check to see if there are any technicians in the Tallahassee area that specialise in game equipment repair, but even if there are, I'm not certain how good of a job they'd do, and I'm not going to want to pay money to find out that my controller won't work AT ALL anymore, 1P or 2P. (it still needs to have a wire resoldered to get key 7 working again, but that's something I could probably do myself) I'm not even sure how much such a repair would run me, though I'd imagine it would be less than a full-blown replacement.

- GET IT REPLACED: Probably the more sober of the two decisions, and the one I'm more likely to pick, but also the more financially strenuous. This is where you guys come in.

Now, I have two KOCs (one sticky JP one and one occasionally non-responsive US one), and if it comes down to it I could just mod those to make them better, but neither my wife nor I really have any desire to "go back" so to speak. Denise already told me that she isn't going to get used to a KOC again if there's any chance she'd have to readjust back to arcade spacing in the next couple of months, so with DD due to come out soon that pretty much means we're getting another ASC.

But...which one!?

Here are the options I'm mulling over and pros and cons I've noted of each:

THE OFFICIAL KONMAI ARCADE STYLE CONTROLLER (ca. $312 + shipping from Play-Asia): Starting over again with another fresh one may be just what the doctor ordered, but after the crashing and burning of my current controller, could I ever trust one again?

PROS:
- My current debacle aside, a pretty damn consistent track record of reliability and performance. I RARELY hear of anyone complaining upon receipt of one of these, aside from some of the issues that will be mentioned under CONS
- Replacing microswitches won't be an issue (well, once I learn how to solder them myself) because I have a whole box full of replacements
- It's purdy.

CONS:
- It seems as if every new one starts off with an impossibly tight turntable, and my old one was no exception. It took literally months of constant playing to wear down whatever was causing the TT to stiffen to the point where it was comfortably loose.
- It's loud as a motherfucker. Got used to it, though.
- Microswitches seem to be of the lowest calibre and require annual replacement.
- In base form, it's the most expensive of all of my options, and even worse, since they historically tend to be in short supply, they could go out of stock at PlayAsia at any time. So I'd have to act now if I wanted this and just try to sell off as much of my shit as I can to pay it off on my credit card.

DJ DAO ($130-$250 + shipping from China): Certainly the most physically attractive of all of the options, could there be more than meets the eye, perhaps something sinister lurking underneath the controllers' polished surfaces?

PROS:
- The basic of the basic models is the cheapest of all my options, alleviating a shit-ton of financial stress (considering I'm currently selling off one of my skeleton Saturns and possibly some games for more than $130). And even if I splurge and go with the PE, it would be do-able in the long run.
- Keys and TT light up
- It's real purdy

CONS:
- Reliability and the reputation of the seller is in constant debate. Some have nothing but praise to shout about DJ DAO and his products, and others claim to have been royally gypped. People have received controllers in the mail that have had missing parts, cracked parts, or ones that just plain do not work, and have received next to no support in alleviating their problems.
- Reliability of the controller is also questionable. Some people claim to experience no problems with their controllers, but others have complained of noticable TT lag, particularly with the Putf8um Editions.
- Keypad is non-flippable, not that we'd be flipping it anyways. However, that does open up margin for error if we order a 2P controller and magically receive a 1P in the mail.
- I can't tell if the FP7s use arcade spacing or are just glorified KOCs. I mean, I know the TT is KOC *size*, but in some pictures it seems like it's too close to the keys (a la a KOC), and in others it seems to be spaced more traditionally (a la an ASC).

DESKTOP ARCADE ($225 and up + shipping from WITHIN THE COUNTRY): I'm not too familiar with this particular maker, but I've seem to have heard good things about DA products (though I've heard complaints, too). Price-wise, it's mid-range, assuming I don't take advantage of the plethora of options he offers (and, the thing of it is, I probably would, too)

PROS:
- It's basically a Build Your Own Controller. I like how you can customise virtually everything about it (of course, for a price).
- The keypad is flippable, unlike a DJ DAO.
- Not that I'd get one, but I do like how a doubles deck is about half the price of a DAO "Real" controller.
- Supposedly no TT lag.

CONS:
- I simply don't know enough about this maker. I seem to remember people saying that you have to supply your own controller for him to harvest parts out of, but he makes no mention of it on his page, so perhaps that was a practice that has been since abandoned. Still, I have no idea how trustworthy or reliable he or his products are.
- The standard switches used are Cherry switches, which I've heard are notoriously bad/mushy for IIDX, and he seems to be out of Omron at the moment
- Not really a con per se, but more of a question: since Sanwas are really expensive (an extra $60), what kind of buttons are the stock buttons? Are they still playable, or are Sanwas really the only way to go?

Any other alternatives I haven't mentioned? Anyone have any $.02 to add to what I've already stated? Any input at all would be much appreciated.


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arttq
post Jul 7 2007, 11:03 AM
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The tt of DJ dao FP7 is a bit larger than KOC one. The space between tt and keys are about the same as KOC's. I have the FP7-S. The TT makes sometimes phantom registers and one of the key leds stopped working. Otherwise it's a great controller.


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Oogami
post Jul 7 2007, 11:18 AM
Post #3


Candy Galy
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QUOTE(arttq @ Jul 7 2007, 12:03 PM) *
The tt of DJ dao FP7 is a bit larger than KOC one. The space between tt and keys are about the same as KOC's. I have the FP7-S. The TT makes sometimes phantom registers and one of the key leds stopped working. Otherwise it's a great controller.

Any noticable TT lag? I've heard that can be a big problem (though I've mostly heard that complaint used for PE versions of his controller)

EDIT: I see you mentioned that the spacing is similar to the KOC's spacing. That, unfortunately, just won't do. :\


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Axem Rangers
post Jul 7 2007, 12:07 PM
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I've never used a Desktop Arcade IIDX ASC, but I can vouch from my experience with my Pop'n DASC (which I love) that Steve is a great, friendly and accomodating guy to do business with.


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arttq
post Jul 7 2007, 12:09 PM
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I haven't noticed any lag in the tt. Too bad about the spacing issue.


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Oogami
post Jul 7 2007, 12:21 PM
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Candy Galy
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Yeah, it's just that Denise and I are so used to the arcade dimensions that we just aren't comfortable switching back (even though she has tiny hands, she still prefers the arcade layout).

The more I read about Desktop Arcade, the more I'm considering it. It does seem like there's some wait time involved. That in itself isn't necessarily bad, but does one have to wait merely a couple of weeks, or is a few months more likely?


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itsgreylolol
post Jul 7 2007, 01:04 PM
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My opinion may not be of some importance to many, because of my mediocre skill at this game, but I have owned a Dao, and a Desktop Arcade, along with a USKOC.

Honestly, the Dao is a pretty piece of hardware, but very fragile. The DASC may not be as pretty, but Ill be damned if it doesnt work amazingly. The only thing I would recommend is not matter what you end up getting, get Sanwa keys. I know they are a bit extra, no matter where you get them from, but seriously, there's no reason in a nice ASC without Sanwas.

Oh yeah, the TT on the Dao is not only laggy, but has a pretty bad habit of misfiring. A lot. The only issue that Ive had with the DASC TT is that it is a bit loose, but thats just my opinion.


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All numbers not including EMP+PB
[L7] Left to AAA: 3 (Step Into the New World, Fun, Gambol)
[7k] left to A: 1 (Pluto)
11*s left to clear: 9 (waxing and wanding, tripping contact (remix), The Dirty of Loudness, four pieces of heaven, Blocks, Bleeding Luv, Be OK [b])
12*s Cleared: 5
Ds left in IIDX: 4 (Mendes[b], Icarus[b], four pieces of heaven[b], Mei[a])
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Buffalo
post Jul 7 2007, 01:40 PM
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QUOTE(Grey @ Jul 7 2007, 01:04 PM) *
My opinion may not be of some importance to many, because of my mediocre skill at this game, but I have owned a Dao, and a Desktop Arcade, along with a USKOC.

Honestly, the Dao is a pretty piece of hardware, but very fragile. The DASC may not be as pretty, but Ill be damned if it doesnt work amazingly. The only thing I would recommend is not matter what you end up getting, get Sanwa keys. I know they are a bit extra, no matter where you get them from, but seriously, there's no reason in a nice ASC without Sanwas.

Oh yeah, the TT on the Dao is not only laggy, but has a pretty bad habit of misfiring. A lot. The only issue that Ive had with the DASC TT is that it is a bit loose, but thats just my opinion.


I've played on a DAO before and I can't remember it ever missfiring. I couldn't really test out TT lag because there was already lag from playing on a HDTV. Ugh.

My only problem with getting a DASC is that Steve hand builds them and Sanwa shipping might take a while (I know one person who ordered a set of Sanwas hasn't gotten his shipment in half a year).


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Jadin
post Jul 7 2007, 02:09 PM
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whoah man oo-ben-gami man listen your wife is really cute but i aint breakin nothin man don't be sayin shit makin upp shit u kno man i tryin ta keep out of trouble with my wife an i aint want no problems from my nigga montel williams he be callin makin sure i aint hafta go on his show ya heard aight man keep the peace Jadin out


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[21:17:43] <+Jadin> sry I fell asleep making spaghetti
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Trip Machina
post Jul 7 2007, 07:30 PM
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Wow, I didn't know that IIDX ASC's had so many strange issues...I've heard about the noticeable slight lag with the ASC. All in all, IIDX KOC > IIDX ASC.

If someone somehow modified a IIDX KOC in such a way as to where they install custom Sanwa keys that light up along with a light-up turntable ring. Seems far fetched, but I'm thinking it's possible.


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deathrazor
post Jul 7 2007, 07:45 PM
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Steve (Desktop Arcade) is really dwindling down the queue on the DASC's, so I would imagine if you ordered one it wouldn't take much longer than a month at most. You can always email him and ask him though.


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Oogami
post Jul 8 2007, 01:20 AM
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Candy Galy
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QUOTE(Jadin @ Jul 7 2007, 03:09 PM) *
whoah man oo-ben-gami man listen your wife is really cute but i aint breakin nothin man don't be sayin shit makin upp shit u kno man i tryin ta keep out of trouble with my wife an i aint want no problems from my nigga montel williams he be callin makin sure i aint hafta go on his show ya heard aight man keep the peace Jadin out

yeah man i no wut u sayin last time u was on his show u was like WHAT i didnt no sleep with nobodys motherf-in horse (that motherf-in word was bleepd out u no wut im sayin cuz that shit aint TYTE on TV) and thten some ho sayd "hey dude jadin wut is up you sleep wit my ant and cusin' and then ur wife came on da show and was all like nuh UH beeitch hood be all up in my shizzle 4 rizzle and then it was like a 2 B continued or somein cuz my teevo ran out yall how did it end?? benjamin out

PS u callin my wife cute u got some BALLZ son! she is cute tho dont get me rong but only i can sya that k?

QUOTE(Trip Machina @ Jul 7 2007, 08:30 PM) *
Wow, I didn't know that IIDX ASC's had so many strange issues...I've heard about the noticeable slight lag with the ASC. All in all, IIDX KOC > IIDX ASC.

Actually, the Konami ASC has absolutely no lag whatsoever. It's a virtually perfect controller, which is why I'm sad to see it go.

I think I've decided to persue Desktop Arcade as my main choice for replacement. However, no one's yet said how well the cherry switches work with IIDX. I remember someone on BMS YEARS ago (like, 2003-4) experimented with them and deduced that they are way too mushy, but is that accurate?


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Flowers for Albi...
post Jul 8 2007, 02:11 AM
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You can't judge your experience based on one other person.

I am too planning the IIDASC road. It just seems that it's time to step up to the plate.


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Jadin
post Jul 8 2007, 02:44 AM
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QUOTE(Oogami @ Jul 8 2007, 12:20 AM) *
PS u callin my wife cute u got some BALLZ son! she is cute tho dont get me rong but only i can sya that k?


nigga looks like you can't take a compliment man don't gotta be gettin all defensive like spiral zer0 maybe you best go read some literature man don't be scoffin at books like my japanigga DABO ya heard, Jadin out

edit:
oh yeah, the show ended nicely. BBH came on the show, and Angela baked him a cake. You can read all about it here.


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[21:17:43] <+Jadin> sry I fell asleep making spaghetti
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itsgreylolol
post Jul 8 2007, 11:06 AM
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I actually prefer the cherry switches over the switches that came in the Dao. The Dao's were a bit clickier, but the cherry switches are much more smooth. For the record, I am currently using a DASC with cherry switches and Sanwa keys, and I couldn't be happier with it, unless I could find a way to tighten the turntable just a hair...


--------------------
All numbers not including EMP+PB
[L7] Left to AAA: 3 (Step Into the New World, Fun, Gambol)
[7k] left to A: 1 (Pluto)
11*s left to clear: 9 (waxing and wanding, tripping contact (remix), The Dirty of Loudness, four pieces of heaven, Blocks, Bleeding Luv, Be OK [b])
12*s Cleared: 5
Ds left in IIDX: 4 (Mendes[b], Icarus[b], four pieces of heaven[b], Mei[a])
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Flowers for Albi...
post Jul 8 2007, 05:26 PM
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If you email Steve he could give you instructions about that, Grey.


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itsgreylolol
post Jul 8 2007, 05:29 PM
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I don't have any info on DASC, I bought mine slightly used from someone over the internet. I could look it up, I just havent gotten to it yet. I should probably do that though.


--------------------
All numbers not including EMP+PB
[L7] Left to AAA: 3 (Step Into the New World, Fun, Gambol)
[7k] left to A: 1 (Pluto)
11*s left to clear: 9 (waxing and wanding, tripping contact (remix), The Dirty of Loudness, four pieces of heaven, Blocks, Bleeding Luv, Be OK [b])
12*s Cleared: 5
Ds left in IIDX: 4 (Mendes[b], Icarus[b], four pieces of heaven[b], Mei[a])
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Oogami
post Jul 9 2007, 05:38 PM
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Well, it turns out that I'm nixing the Konami ASC as a replacement option because the $312 price *INCLUDES* the current 20% discount that P-A is offering, so I'd have to order right now and pay yet another $100 in shipping. That's just a bit too expensive.

While the most cost-effective and efficient of the two remaining options, I'm probably not going with the DAO either because the only controller of his that appeals to me is the PE (I asked my wife about going back to the KOC spacing and she made it quite clear that she's unwilling to, and quite frankly I am too), and I've heard too many stories about TT lag and I'd rather not play all of my Beatmania games like 6th+Core. Not to mention that if I'm one of the unlucky ones who get a non-functioning unit, I'd be pretty SOL as it seems he doesn't offer any warranty support.

So DASC it seems to be...

Thanks to everyone who helped in this thread, and if anyone still has more to add about any of these options, I'd still love to read it! biggrin.gif


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Catastrophe
post Jul 9 2007, 11:49 PM
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The controller board on your ASC died?
  1. Grab a KOC. Carefully remove the board.
  2. Find the 7 places where the 7 plungers touch the board.
  3. Find the two 'paths' on each key that each plunger connects.
  4. Drill 14 small holes into each of the 14 paths. The further apart the holes are, the better.
  5. Put the 14 wires from the microswitches into the holes and fill them with solder.
  6. Hot glue the new board to something somewhere nice. (Because it's probably the wrong size.)
  7. Reconnect the turntable. Use scissors and electrical tape if you have to.
  8. Enjoy your new DASC and send me your ASC. 8) 8) 8)


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HAXUDE
post Jul 9 2007, 11:57 PM
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QUOTE(Oogami @ Jul 9 2007, 06:38 PM) *
So DASC it seems to be...

Thanks to everyone who helped in this thread, and if anyone still has more to add about any of these options, I'd still love to read it! biggrin.gif


The DASC is a great controller if you don't mind he wait, Steve is also very friendly and responds to emails and answers questions. He's working on getting Sanwa keys at the moment, his dealer sent him square buttons instead of rectangles rolleyes.gif

I got the medium strength keys on my controller while I wait for him to send me the Sanwa keys I ordered with it, and although the only thing I can compare it to is a USKOC it's a little bit "mushy" and doesn't have as strong of a click as I'd imagine he Sanwas would. If you pres butan hard and smack the keys like most players instead of playing like you were typing you won't notice the mushiness at all.

I've managed to recently break my TT from playing Blue Mirage about 50 times in a row (it won't register rapid scratches, but all it takes to fix is a bit of superglue), but the controller is really durable and I've had it for months of constant play before having this happen.

so ya get the dasc
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