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> customs into IIDX arcade?
Elphaba
post Dec 22 2010, 10:36 PM
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travelsonic where the fuck did your holic 3key light mode 60 note video go


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travelsonic
post Dec 22 2010, 10:42 PM
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That ancient piece of shit? Haven't a clue actually, a lot of shit "disappeared" from my channel inexplicably - some obvious [like my various classic Nickelodeon uploads - Viacom'd in the long run], some.... without any explanation whatsoever.

Doesn't matter really, now that I have been getting into IIDX 4th and 7th styles. [yes, "ancient" in the IIDX unit of age measurement] Kinda bummed that I'm going to be in the Tampa/St. Pete area of Florida next week and Beach Gameland is gone... I was really looking forward to some Happy Sky, and playing DDR Extreme on a machine that doesn't suck [even though the arcade near me got one, DDR Extreme, that is, and fixed it up very well].

This post has been edited by travelsonic: Dec 22 2010, 10:49 PM
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Tau
post Dec 22 2010, 11:06 PM
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Please don't do this. It's a lot more work than hacking an ITG machine, and I'm going to be blunt here, basically all of the ITG machine hacks I've seen are juvenile unprofessional garbage. Please don't do that to a IIDX machine.

Like, the last thing I want to see is a IIDX songwheel with a folder called KEVIN IS A homosexual on it and I've seen that sort of garbage on ITG machines before and it makes me want to kill people

I suppose I'm being a bit inflammatory without much substance here, so I'm going to tell you what this involves: firstly, if this isn't a bootleg machine then you're not going to get anywhere. Your data will need to pass a modified CRC checksum or the game will refuse to boot. The fact that you have videos for missing songs and other such detritus on the hard disk suggests that the machine is probably a bootleg. I'm not going to comment on the legality of this operation, I'm just describing the technical aspects. Unless you put a lot of effort into it you'll also have strange inexplicable sync issues with your imported songs, and it is likely that you'll have to generate or obtain a whole bunch of graphics to fill stuff in on the menu: each genre, artist, song title, song list element and song load screen is a separate image file that you'll have to provide and integrate seamlessly with the existing graphics. A lot of messing around with binary data files is involved, and it's still more likely than not that you'll end up with a broken setup somehow.


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Buffalo
post Dec 22 2010, 11:24 PM
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but you know

juvenile unprofessional garbage is what creates champions


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travelsonic
post Dec 22 2010, 11:29 PM
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QUOTE (Tau @ Dec 22 2010, 11:06 PM) *
I suppose I'm being a bit inflammatory without much substance here, so I'm going to tell you what this involves: firstly, if this isn't a bootleg machine then you're not going to get anywhere. Your data will need to pass a modified CRC checksum or the game will refuse to boot. The fact that you have videos for missing songs and other such detritus on the hard disk suggests that the machine is probably a bootleg. I'm not going to comment on the legality of this operation, I'm just describing the technical aspects. Unless you put a lot of effort into it you'll also have strange inexplicable sync issues with your imported songs, and it is likely that you'll have to generate or obtain a whole bunch of graphics to fill stuff in on the menu: each genre, artist, song title, song list element and song load screen is a separate image file that you'll have to provide and integrate seamlessly with the existing graphics. A lot of messing around with binary data files is involved, and it's still more likely than not that you'll end up with a broken setup somehow.



Which is why, IMO, computer science majors are perfect for this set of tasks. biggrin.gif

Going through the BM 5th Mix PSX source code - trying to clean up the code Konami accidentally "gave" those who love venturing through game disk files, and properly document it to make it so anybody who wants to fuck around with it will have a sense of what they are doing, looking at, modifying, etc.

This post has been edited by travelsonic: Dec 23 2010, 12:23 AM
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*NYAA
post Dec 23 2010, 02:51 AM
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QUOTE (Tau @ Dec 23 2010, 05:06 AM) *
Please don't do this.

did already a month after my last post and worked perfectly, sync,videos and whatever

QUOTE (Tau @ Dec 23 2010, 05:06 AM) *
basically all of the ITG machine hacks I've seen are juvenile unprofessional garbage. Please don't do that to a IIDX machine.

the people that puts garbage on itg is very unlikely to go trough all the stuff to make this working (even if in the end takes more time in photoshop than in the hex editor)


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travelsonic
post Dec 23 2010, 12:28 PM
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QUOTE (Newcastle Legions @ Dec 23 2010, 02:51 AM) *
did already a month after my last post and worked perfectly, sync,videos and whatever


the people that puts garbage on itg is very unlikely to go trough all the stuff to make this working (even if in the end takes more time in photoshop than in the hex editor)


Was wondering, for hacking / research purposes, why not just create a MIPS disassembly of the game code for those PSX and PS2 c/s versions, 8086 ASM for the arcade games running on PC hardware? Documenting it would be a pain in the ass yes, but having such disassemblies make hacking much easier as I witnessed with the Sonic the Hedgehog rom hacking scene [having been there in some form for the better part of 12 years now... has it been that long already? 0_o]. Now we need somebody proficient in x86 and/or MIPS assembly. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by travelsonic: Dec 23 2010, 12:30 PM
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*NYAA
post Dec 23 2010, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE (travelsonic @ Dec 23 2010, 06:28 PM) *
Was wondering, for hacking / research purposes, why not just create a MIPS disassembly of the game code for those PSX and PS2 c/s versions, 8086 ASM for the arcade games running on PC hardware? Documenting it would be a pain in the ass yes, but having such disassemblies make hacking much easier as I witnessed with the Sonic the Hedgehog rom hacking scene [having been there in some form for the better part of 12 years now... has it been that long already? 0_o]. Now we need somebody proficient in x86 and/or MIPS assembly. biggrin.gif


couldn't understand a shit of what you said

i forgot we also put four-leaf as ending song that was dope (and had perfect timing)


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The super director L.E.D., said "I like American-based resorts", and felt that there wasn't enough black music and told me to fix that.


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travelsonic
post Dec 23 2010, 01:14 PM
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Basically, disassembling the program is taking it and converting it back into modifiable code. If we did this, we [or rather, those whom have the knowledge of whichever assembly language the game is disassembled into, Intel 8086 for PC based IIDX games, or MIPS for the PSX/PS2 based games] would have the entire IIDX game at our disposal, ripe for modifying to our heart's content from modifiers to interface elements, to how the game overall functions - even modifying the data tables so instead of replacing existing song data to transplant songs we can actually append the tables to look for, load the data.*

* which is doable without disassembling the entire game program, but much much more difficult - especially if you don't have a knowledge of the instruction set you are looking at, or how the instructions are represented in hexadecimal.



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Tau
post Dec 23 2010, 02:14 PM
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Reverse engineering does not work that way. Suffice it to say that the internals of the PC-based IIDX AC engine have been extensively analysed and documented in order to make modifications like this possible. That's not to say that making the relevant tools available was not a really terrible idea in hindsight.


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QUOTE (Junglist King @ Jan 16 2011, 03:19 PM) *
Hot and Dangerous scratching. Makes "Big." by FullMetal Tortoise look like something Gosaku would play.

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travelsonic
post Dec 23 2010, 02:54 PM
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Tau, I know there is more to reverse engineering than I made it sound, though I don't think I'm /*too*/ far off in regards to a means of figuring out how a game engine works and modifying it. After all, for example, disassembling a game and going through the assembly dump was exactly how people gleaned so much about the specific inner workings of many SEGA Genesis/Megadrive Sonic the Hedgehog game engines... that is, what wasn't learned after years of painful work in hex editors, with trial and error and a few notes - an effort that started to really emerge in 1998 if history serves me right.

I do wish that there were some site established with ORGANIZED information on hacking/modding BEMANI games [DDR, IIDX, 5-key BM, Pop'n, etc] - that way those interested would have the resources to do what they want and the ability to contribute their findings.

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Taren
post Dec 23 2010, 03:14 PM
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Travelsonic:
Frankensteining iidx games has been something I've given a lot of thought lately. Im more interested in putting shit like funky bingo paradise on empress solely for the purpose of reviving older stuff on non-shitty interfaces. Custom songs are ehhhhh

Is it possible that two songs on different games will have identical binary data for the music and video? E.g. Mendes on DJT and PB. That's kinda where i want to start...

P.s. I'm talking about CS only


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Tau
post Dec 23 2010, 03:47 PM
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I'd rather just develop a decent IIDX sim that doesn't have IIDX AC's annoying drawbacks, then import stuff into there. Trouble is I've been meaning to do that since 2004, so it's approaching Duke Nukem Forever's development time at the moment (and exceeds its from-scratch-restart count by at least a factor of four). I'll get back to it once I have some free time but the effort basically stalled completely in late 2007 because I graduated university and got a job.

I have no idea about the internals of IIDX CS I'm afraid, so I wouldn't be able to help you there.


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QUOTE (Junglist King @ Jan 16 2011, 03:19 PM) *
Hot and Dangerous scratching. Makes "Big." by FullMetal Tortoise look like something Gosaku would play.

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travelsonic
post Dec 23 2010, 04:19 PM
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QUOTE (Taren @ Dec 23 2010, 03:14 PM) *
Travelsonic:
Frankensteining iidx games has been something I've given a lot of thought lately. Im more interested in putting shit like funky bingo paradise on empress solely for the purpose of reviving older stuff on non-shitty interfaces.


Understood. Though I do express interest in adding custom songs, making it so one doesn't need to overwrite existing data benefits those who merely want to transplant songs from one mix to another as well as those who wish to attempt custom songs.

QUOTE
Is it possible that two songs on different games will have identical binary data for the music and video?


Let me see if I understand what you are asking: say song A appears in mix C and then again in mix H, would the data appear in mix H in the same way as it did in mix C?

Assuming the folder layout[s], audio/video/step data formats didn't change, I'd say the [binary, or hexadecimal depending on how you are viewing the data] should appear identical if not the same. If there was a file format change along the way forcing the modification of the mix C data before it goes into mix H, then it would complicate things slightly.

Of course, if we can decompress the PAK files containing all the data [then re-compress them again properly], that would make things easier, IMO.

This post has been edited by travelsonic: Dec 23 2010, 04:27 PM
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travelsonic
post Dec 23 2010, 05:58 PM
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QUOTE (Tau @ Dec 23 2010, 03:47 PM) *
I'd rather just develop a decent IIDX sim that doesn't have IIDX AC's annoying drawbacks, then import stuff into there.


Designing the program, how the data is processed/loaded/saved, deciding how you will go about handling the graphical elements, i/o, etc, then actually coding the thing would take a good amount of time - but ultimately the control is all upon you - you designed it, you know how it works and can change it to make it work to YOUR liking, so in that sense it is a more pleasant alternative for sure.

Still, from a technological standpoint trying to add songs in either the arcade, or console version of IIDX, and doing so without having to overwrite any of the existing data, would be a great feat.

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Himiko
post Dec 23 2010, 08:00 PM
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Take the trolling elsewhere, please. This topic is about custom songs on IIDX arcade machines.
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m335h73r
post Dec 23 2010, 08:02 PM
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This thread was over a year and a half old!

:C


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One Niceass Indi...
post Dec 23 2010, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE (Himiko @ Dec 23 2010, 05:00 PM) *
Take the trolling elsewhere, please. This topic is about custom songs on IIDX arcade machines.

i'm not trolling it was a serious question asshole

also you forgot to end that post with "Thanks!"


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DanAdamKOF
post Dec 25 2010, 11:03 AM
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HOOOOOOOOOOOOOLY SHIT
a 2MB cartridge with all of its tightly-made machine code, is not the same thing as a compiled, labyrinthine Windows program with system hooks and shit to trace.

You don't know what you're talking about at all.

Also I'm in CS and I don't want to do this at all, so you're wrong there too.


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Theoretically Ga...
post Dec 25 2010, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE (DanAdamKOF @ Dec 25 2010, 11:03 AM) *
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOLY SHIT
a 2MB cartridge with all of its tightly-made machine code, is not the same thing as a compiled, labyrinthine Windows program with system hooks and shit to trace.

You don't know what you're talking about at all.

Also I'm in CS and I don't want to do this at all, so you're wrong there too.

ehh


But Travelsonic, at least when hacking PC (or anything more complex than a 2MB cart as DanAdam said) programs its often faaarrr more beneficial to write/use a programmable debugger to inspect whats going on than wading though the disassembled source, or even a decompiled source. I'm not sure how the state of PS2 debugging is though, so you might wanna spend a good chunk of time in that community before getting too far into this


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