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> IIDX on HDTV, revisited, ... now accepting any and all pointers
mrguitar
post Oct 11 2006, 01:13 PM
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QUOTE(Mafia Boss @ Oct 11 2006, 10:48 AM) *
The columns in "Arcade" mode are much narrower than the columns in "Original" mode, and this is why I have to play in Original. My brain is too hard-wired to the wider Original columns. I also have a bit of trouble playing Original in 16:9 mode, but quite as much.
This won't help lag, but try dropping the speed by HS1 from what you're used to (example: HS4.5 to HS3.5) add towel or Sudden+ to taste and play a little closer than usual if possible, it should be a lot better, and in my experience, VERY comparable to the official arcade screen.

This post has been edited by mrguitar: Oct 11 2006, 01:14 PM


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Mafia Boss
post Oct 12 2006, 12:26 AM
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QUOTE(mrguitar @ Oct 11 2006, 01:13 PM) *
This won't help lag, but try dropping the speed by HS1 from what you're used to (example: HS4.5 to HS3.5) add towel or Sudden+ to taste and play a little closer than usual if possible, it should be a lot better, and in my experience, VERY comparable to the official arcade screen.

Maybe I'll experiment with that. Until I get the lag sorted out, though, I'm going to have a hard time enjoying the game much. It's no fun to drop a grade level.
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Mafia Boss
post Oct 22 2006, 07:13 PM
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BUMP: Xploder HD is shipping now:
http://www.xploder.net/products/148/Xploder-HDTV-Player.htm

My order has been placed. I'll write a review as soon as I get it. At present I don't even know what method they plan on using for shipping--when placing the order you don't get a choice. They did send a "thanks for your order" email stating:

QUOTE
If you have ordered any items that require shipping you will receive an email from our sales department when your order is dispatched. They will confirm the expected delivery date of your order and provide you with an order tracking number.


The price is listed as "$39.99" but it was actually $54.32. I will cut them some slack since this is a price I'm more than willing to pay, if it works as advertised, and the actual price is £29 and they are just converting that price to US$. Changing currencies isn't free. (I visited Europe this summer, I understand the realities of the price of currency conversion.)
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Mafia Boss
post Nov 15 2006, 12:09 AM
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BUMP: The Splitfish hdFX now lists a ship date of March, 2007.
http://www.splitfish.com/ -> Gameware -> hdFX

I would still love to see a solution that doesn't involve disc swapping--not to mention complicated hacks just to run the Japanese styles. Once this comes out I will probably buy it just to see how it stacks up.

BTW, for those who haven't been following my other threads, the Xploder HDTV works well--with the significant caveat that it doesn't run on a Japanese console, or allow an American console to play Japanese games. So to enjoy IIDX outside of the American release, you basically need a hack or a mod of some kind. I've been using it to play Beatmania USA and researching workarounds for the region locking (hopefully this will be solved by the end of the week). There's a lot of related info in the VGA Box thread.
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Remy
post Dec 10 2006, 05:07 PM
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Mafia - forgive me for missing it in the piles and piles of posts, but what's the response time listed for your HDTV?

(There's a reason I'm asking!)


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Mafia Boss
post Dec 12 2006, 12:24 AM
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Samsung lists the response time as "8ms," which is half a frame's worth. Definitely small enough that one can adjust to it.
I believe some LCD panels are down to 6ms now but I doubt that extra 2ms will make a significant difference.
Remy, you're on a HDTV, right? You should try the Xploder. It might help. Drop me a line and I can arrange something for you.
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Remy
post Dec 12 2006, 12:33 AM
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QUOTE(Mafia Boss @ Dec 12 2006, 12:24 AM) *
Samsung lists the response time as "8ms," which is half a frame's worth. Definitely small enough that one can adjust to it.
I believe some LCD panels are down to 6ms now but I doubt that extra 2ms will make a significant difference.
Remy, you're on a HDTV, right? You should try the Xploder. It might help. Drop me a line and I can arrange something for you.


I asked not for my existing HDTV, but the one we've got coming in next week. THE PLOT THICKENS!

I know what the response time of the new one is, and I'm just trying to do the whole mental math thing to figure out if I need to try all of this fancy pants stuff or if I'll probably still be playing the same as I did on Ye Olde Phillips 30" HD CRT. At this point, signs are pointing to yes.


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Mafia Boss
post Dec 12 2006, 12:17 PM
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You'll need the fancy pants stuff. For that matter, you likely needed the fancy pants stuff on your existing HD CRT and didn't know it. Any TV which does deinterlacing (basically any HDTV) injects a frame or two of extra lag into the equation, above and beyond the advertised response time. Xploder HDTV works around this by enabling progressive scan mode. The IIDX games still output a visibly interlaced signal, but now, instead of your TV trying to smooth it out, your TV just displays it as-is—so you get a tiny amount of flicker on fine lines.

On my HDTV, if I don't run with Xploder, it costs me about a letter grade. When I first started, it was closer to 2-3 letter grades, but I learned to compensate for the lag—to a degree.

I wouldn't be surprised if you fired up the Xploder HDTV on your HD CRT and, within a day or two, you started getting better scores.

Anyway, what kind of TV are you getting? I'm quite curious.

Oh, BTW... HAPPY SKYYYYYYYYYY
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Schlagwerk
post Dec 12 2006, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE(Mafia Boss @ Dec 12 2006, 12:17 PM) *
Oh, BTW... HAPPY SKYYYYYYYYYY


Timing adjustments are just placebos.
Every time I've tried 'em they're either a) not fine enough of an adjustment, b ) can't be set high enough to fix really laggy TVs, or c) in Guitar Hero II's case, just plain suck because you can't set the delay value manually.


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Jadin
post Dec 12 2006, 02:56 PM
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The new option probably falls under 'not fine enough of an adjustment', but don't worry about +/- 5 not being enough. It's crazy off. I know it probably won't be perfect, but it will still make a major difference I think. I'll have my own opinions next week when we try on my friend's hdtv =)


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rmz
post Dec 12 2006, 07:52 PM
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For me (LCD HDTV), "-1" makes the game have timing very very very similar to other IIDX CS games on a non-laggy TV. WOOT biggrin.gif
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Oogami
post Dec 12 2006, 09:23 PM
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It kind of makes me wonder why anyone would want the plus settings, unless some setups introduce sound lag.


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rmz
post Dec 12 2006, 10:07 PM
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Yeah, actually, my receiver introduces sound lag. Maybe...if I try playing with my receiver and my HDTV they'll cancel each other out by exactly the same amount tongue.gif

Not likely but it'd be funny.
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Tau
post Dec 12 2006, 10:20 PM
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Plus settings would only make sense for some sort of crazy weird TV that displayed 16 milliseconds INTO THE FUTURE. Or some multiple thereof.


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Schlagwerk
post Dec 12 2006, 10:56 PM
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QUOTE(Tau @ Dec 12 2006, 10:20 PM) *
Plus settings would only make sense for some sort of crazy weird TV that displayed 16 milliseconds INTO THE FUTURE. Or some multiple thereof.


It's like that guy getting the newspaper a day in advance, only much more useless, and I betcha even HE never saw a need to use a plus setting.


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jammitch!
post Dec 12 2006, 11:10 PM
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QUOTE(Tau @ Dec 12 2006, 09:20 PM) *
Plus settings would only make sense for some sort of crazy weird TV that displayed 16 milliseconds INTO THE FUTURE. Or some multiple thereof.

Or if the audio was lagging, not the video.


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MAIcrosoft
post Dec 13 2006, 03:49 AM
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I'm using -3 for my 16ms Samsung 242MP. Result:



Im happy : D


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Mafia Boss
post Dec 13 2006, 10:19 AM
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QUOTE(MAIcrosoft @ Dec 13 2006, 03:49 AM) *
I'm using -3 for my 16ms Samsung 242MP.

The TV's advertised pixel response time is not the main source of lag; it's signal deinterlacing. (Basically that's the process of converting from low-def to high-def.)
In other words, your TV's response time when displaying a low-def signal is probably closer to 50ms than 16ms.
The Xploder works around that by forcing the PS2 to output a high-def signal. The graphics may not actually improve any, but at least you can work around the signal conversion.
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CryptopsyBodom
post Feb 15 2007, 02:42 PM
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So, does the Xploder work by putting the Xploder disk in, then a swap magic disk, then the IIDX disk?
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Uiru
post Feb 15 2007, 03:44 PM
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I'm 2 for 2 in regards to playing Xepher in large department stores, first of all. smile.gif

My Sony 46" Grand Wega's native res is 720 (p, I guess). Will S-video or component cables get that high, or are these for 480p?

My brother and I got the lag under control for Happy Sky on +0 by switching fullscreen modes; it's probably not perfect yet though. Older styles are unplayable. I'll be quite pleased if all I need are a new set of cables.

Thanks.

edit: Oh, I don't think we found a difference between arcade and original, and arcade is so much more hardcore.
~Uiru

This post has been edited by Uiru: Feb 15 2007, 03:55 PM
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